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Originally Posted by christianm77
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08-22-2018 02:44 PM
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Perfect pitch is actually rather rare. As a classical trained t-bone and vocalist you learn that it's really, for nearly everyone with good pitch awareness, a *relative* pitch awareness.
Some tighter than others of course, and most tighter at some pitches than others. My voice has the passagio points chest/mixed at middle C, mixed/head at F above that. (Pure dramatic tenor points.)
So if I can hum something in that area, I can give you within a semi-tone what the pitch is. It's a solid physical thing, even more than just hearing it.
I've got quite a low end for a tenor. And as it's a naturally huge resonant instrument that most people don't wanna be within 15 foot directly in front of me even at moderate output (for my instrument) I normally sing in lower ranges in most public group singing situations, where the output is less and high frequency overtones diminished somewhat. I can frequently find a harmony line to sing also. I sight read rather well.
But that lower octave and a half, I can't give you nearly the exact pitch "answer" that I can near or in passagio. By low C, I'll be within a tone and a half. The F below that, within 2 tones.
Nearly everyone I've studied with, knew in college, or met ... is the same.
The closest to a standard "understanding" of perfect pitch I've been around are a couple pianists who could typically be within a semi-tone through a good range. But even they dropped accuracy out of a three/four octave center of the keyboard.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
That said, when I'm next able, I'm going to have a careful look over the Omnibook. I remember there being quite a few triplets on 1 and 3 in Bird's music, so I kind of discounted the 2 and 4 idea as not being a general rule, but I think a bit more detail could be interesting.
Also, other players. Second generation bop practice differs in many ways from Parker...
This is not an attempt to poke holes in PG's teaching (!) BTW - the man is obviously absolutely astonishing in his command of authentic bop phraseology, but I think it's an interesting point that is useful as a guideline for the student, but opens a door to a deeper understanding like so many guidelines in music.
One thing that I dislike in my playing and some other guitarists who have checked out the same material, is when the triplet is too lazy, and while rushing it is even worse, it's got to be just right so it pops. Not too martial and articulated either. (BTW I must check out GJ triplets now with this stuff in mind.)
BH's triplets are a thing of beauty. To my ears, it has to be so the 8ths are behind and in the upbeat pocket, but the triplets are precisely on the beat and subdividing exactly. It's the push and pull against the beat while everything is perfectly in the upbeat 'and' pocket that makes it swing so hard, I reckon.
BTW, I'm going to repost this Brad Mehldau article regarding Barry's triplets thing. Mehldau doesn't quite buy it.... But his reasons are respectful to Barry, perceptive and deep.
Carnegie 05 — Brad Mehldau
Carnegie 06 — Brad Mehldau
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BTW that Bud transcription on the Mehldau page 06 contains 2 triplets on the 1 and 2 on the 2!
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Originally Posted by christianm77
As far as I could see:
on 2 / bar 4
on 3/ 22
on 2/ 29
on 2/ 62
on 1/ 81 (1/4 triole)
that is
3 x 2
1 x 3
1 x 1
Figures do not really supporting proposed Swing Vs. Bop rule, if we agree that CC and Django, whoever they might be, are "swing twiddlers".
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Coltrane plays a swing twiddle on that If I Were a Bell solo so that’s that theory out of the window.
I will watch the PG masterclass soon...
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Originally Posted by pcjazz
OK, I think I'm ready to post this. When I started this, I didn't really know where it will eventually go. What I tried to do is to deduce some pattern and "rules" from this solo, things I know are applicable to the many other of Barry's solos as well. So eventually I ended up writing an overview of Barry's playing in this solo (at least the way I see it, not yet sure what it worth to anyone else, lol), and then I try to analyse the transcription in relation to the concepts described in the overview.
I guess this is still work in progress, but here it is:
Ornithology - Barry Harris Transcription - Overview and Analysis.pdf - Google Drive
Feel free to comment and give feedback. Remember that this is just my own point of view based on my own observations, not not necessarily aligned with Barry's way of thinking, or his way of teaching it...
Cheers, and I really hope this is gonna be useful to anyone...
Tamir
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Hey,
Here's another chorus of Barry playing 'How High The Moon' from his 1958 recording with Sonny Stitt:
PDF here:
How high the Moon - 1958 - Barry Harris Transcription.pdf - Google Drive
Enjoy,
Tamir
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Originally Posted by tamirgal
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Originally Posted by grahambop
They're on fire!
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Sorry, I’ve made another one
This time a Blues, especially for Bird’s birthday!
PDF:
Passport (Blues) - Barry Harry Transcription 1958.pdf - Google Drive
Cheers,
Tamir
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Thanks Tamir! I've picking and choosing phrases from them
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Hey Joe,
Did you get a chance to look at the summary I wrote on Barry's playing on Ornithology? Here:
Ornithology - Barry Harris Transcription - Overview and Analysis.pdf - Google Drive
Would love to hear you thoughts.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
Sorry for such a late reply! Only just came back from holidays. Up until the first bar of Ab^ is what Barry had us play, from then on it's what I tried out.
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Practical examples of BH comping ideas over ATTYA:
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Just watched him at the Chicago Jazz Festival with Charles McPherson/Larry Gray/George Fludas, he was sublime. He thanked Chicago for Joe Segal "who kept Charlie Parker alive"
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Originally Posted by medblues
McPherson is a monster! Beautiful alto player. One of Barry's oldest students.
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here's a transcription i done about a year ago! Bud Powell on Ornithology. Thought you guys might find it useful.
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Originally Posted by don_oz
Would be a nice exercise to find similar licks/motives in Bud's and Barry's solos... I think I already spotted couple
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these are fantastic... i wonder if there’s a way to compile them and i can put it on the front page of the thread that lists all the resources. i’ll add “things i learned from barry harris” guy too
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My understanding is scale outlines are for learning to hear a tunes chord changes and form through playing scales that "sound" these chords.
BH also has scale practice methods in the ABC's section of the workshop dvd. Scales in thirds, diatonic chords and arpeggios played in different rhythms etc.
Are these two methods also meant to be combined? I personally find playing scale outlines to have a very rapidly diminishing returns. The way I like to practice tunes is to come up with patterns that are made up of scale and chord tones and play those in different rhythmic forms. That gets me closer to improvisation than playing ascending scales and still allows me to hear the chords changes.
Did you see anywhere where BH uses the scale practice ideas in the ABC's to outline tunes?
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Thats what comes to my mind at least. I'd be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
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Originally Posted by don_oz
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Originally Posted by don_oz
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Originally Posted by don_oz
thats exactly it. so you’ve run the scale outline so many times you subconciously know 1 bar c 1 bar f 2 bar c 2 bars f. without thinking because you drilled it in, you can feel it. then what you do within those scales is a mixtures of thirds, chromatics, pivoting, triads, chords, added note rules, 5432...and since those have been drilled into muscle memory by combining them you get legit bebop lines that are spontanious and you will even surprise yourself
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