-
Nope. But he's pretty quick at sending out DVD's.
Originally Posted by mikostep
-
10-10-2016 11:13 AM
-
I'm
-
Trouble is I live in Europe and it takes some time and it isn't always secure path. I had a lot of lost packages so far.
I have dvd1 and dvd3 but I feel like I'm missing something very important.
-
I live in the UK and it was fine if that's any reassurance. I've ordered quite a few things from the site. Originally Posted by mikostep
-
Guess I'll drink that 💊 since it seems very important.
Ps. Christian, I've noticed that you are on the rhythm quest, so to speak. Any recommendation besides Mike Longo?
-
Somethings wrong with my browser. Sorry if it sends double posts.
Guess I'll have to drink that pill and order from the site since it seems very interesting.
Anyway, can you confirm if I understood the premise of the course well so far: it's all about filling the bar with the rhythm (notes) using Pyle of notes (rhythm)?
-
Somethings wrong with my browser. Sorry if it sends double posts.
Guess I'll have to drink that pill and order from the site since it seems very interesting.
Anyway, can you confirm if I understood the premise of the course well so far: it's all about filling the bar with the rhythm (notes) using Pyle of notes (rhythm)?
-
You're right. Rhythm has been my primary obsession and focus for a few years. Originally Posted by mikostep
I started thinking the metronome was the solution, but have moved more towards an interest in physical, body rhythm.
TBH there's not a huge amount written about this. Well there's a lot written about the maths of rhythm - Ari Hoenig and Jonathon Kreisberg have some materials on this, but when it comes to the history of rhythms in jazz, you have to start using your own ears.
In general most things are my own researches. Just being interested in structural rhythms and the commonalities between musics.
Learn about rhythms. For example, get into drumming. Talk to drummers and percussionists. I learned a lot by learning to play a little Samba, and would happily continue in this area if I could commit to classes. Certainly helps for the bossa stuff, but I would say also in general rhythm.
Dance, too. Salsa, swing, something like that. Again, I've not been able to keep this up due to playing gigs (I know high quality problem)
Very important - play for dancers!
Playing traditional jazz was good too, I think. It got me into thinking about New Orleans rhythms. (Hal Galper also talks about this, and I found Mike's work through him also.)
I am considering getting more into Afro-Cuban rhythms because they relate closely to jazz, and I feel this is a big area of ignorance for me. Luckily I know an excellent percussionist around the corner and some Cubans in the area. Maybe I can learn a little Tres Cubano!
Anyway, we'll see. I think Mike Longo is a great introduction to this stuff. I like the emphasis on drumming and physical time. Kreisberg also touches on this a little bit, but to be honest while Jonathon's time and teaching is great, I just find Mike so much more physical in his approach. Ed Cherry too, who worked with Diz. There's something going on there....Last edited by christianm77; 10-10-2016 at 01:56 PM.
-
And right back to when I had time to seriously practice , I gotta work 12 hour shifts again
Anyway, I was thinking of the following comping exercise .
Play bass notes as half notes on the 1 and 3.
Play a 3 note chord on top of that as a series of dotted quarter Notes.
Since it cycles back to the 1 after 12 bars , any blues could be an ideal form to work with .
Not as easy as it sounds. I gotta hit the shed still.
Time becomes precious again
-
I just want to clarify something on this. Mike is NOT talking about Indian syncopation. Instead, as Dizzy taught him, he is talking about African syncopation. I hang with Mike each week and my daughter has been a student of his for a while. If you want to really learn his (Dizzy's and the true father's of Jazz) thoughts - just shoot him an email and see if he has time to study. As he always says (which is what Dizzy said to him) - "find a rhythm and throw some notes on it" the how to play is far more important that the what to play that we all get so caught up in. It is a journey, but Mike is incredible.
-
if ur planning to be a world class player u got to master this. but just to play more syncopated rhythm all u need to do is not starting the notes on down beat or one/three. use motifs instead of scale run.
btw, before finding this dizzy method i looked up to indian rhythmic concept. john mclaughlin taught this and has it on dvd. but mike took my attention more because its in the context of jazz. i didnt watch it all when my friend borrowed me this. my focus at that time was harmony. but at a glance they seem similar.
-
I just saw JK deliver two master classes here over the weekend (on lines and solo guitar), but not on time-feel-syncopation ). So, I can't assess that. He did say he has two videos out. Originally Posted by christianm77
I watched the whole of Video 2. Genuis. The way he taught the same things to all those instrumentalists, from sax players to double bassists to pianists to guitarists to trumpet players, starting with the 6/8 rhythm on the drum and then transferring to the instrument, seems spot on. You have to FEEL it in your being first.
But the last 20 minutes where he breaks down 2 and 3 and 3 against 4, with the concepts of the Lowest Common denominator, resultant rhythms, developing a key rhythm, really gets the quarter note and half note triplets down solid.
I can't wait until I can practice again and not work 10-12 hours a day.
-
Some people may think that his dichotomy between "music of the spheres" versus "music of the ego" is a bit esoteric and overly intellectual. But it has very practical consequences . When he says that music is not created by feelings but rather that feelings are created by music, it flows very nicely with what Hal Galper says about the faster you play, the slower you count and how you should treat rhythm changes as if it were a ballad.
I've learned to count by half notes . It makes a huge difference in terms of control.
It makes perfect sense why Hal Galper, who has been talked about extensively here, was so impressed that he actually took a lesson from Mike Longo.
One of the profound criticisms that Stanley Crouch had about Clint Eastwood's Charlie Parker movie was that Charlie Parker did not prance about like an R& B player but played perfectly still and motionless.
Feelings do not create music; music creates feelings. You have to be as calm and relaxed as possible without tension and without distraction .
I got my hand drum, a tiny south Indian drum made by Remo.
I'm gonna do nothing but practice 123456, 123, 1234 for an hour a day first thing in the morning, every morning, when I can .
-
Just a thought on getting this material down. I read an article by Noa Kageyama that indicated in some studies that it is better to break practice into smaller parts, say 3-5 minutes for example, and switch between 2 or 3 tasks so your mind forgets a little bit. Do task A, then B, then C, and repeat. This makes you try to remember task A after doing two other tasks that are not directly related (task A, drum work, task B chord melody, task C ear training/learn tune from recording). Having to recall each task after doing a few others makes your mind put the task into long term memory sooner than just doing the same thing over and over again for an hour, which is seen by the mind as a routine task that does not merit going into long-term memory. In the moment (and historically how most of us have been taught to practice) doing something over and over again feels good like we are making alot of progress, but the progress doesn't stay with us for reasons stated above. I am probably using different words but I think I am giving the right point. After all, we want these things to become part of us in an efficient manner. So much to do, not enough time to do it all. Great thread. I just received the Longo rhythm 2 DVD and book set this week. Originally Posted by NSJ
-
Yes I agree. We should always practice in a nonlinear way to the extent were always practicing something we're interested in. Otherwise will get bored and get nothing out of it. When I haven't been working a lot, I wind up practicing 3 to 5 hours a day. I've gotten to the point where whatever I practice, I do it on tunes.
The trick is not to work a lot I guess, so I can work a lot of music. And if I really like it, the work doesn't seem like work.
I really like how he explained two against three and three against four in the video . The thing is, I already practice the 3 v 4 correctly, but by a different approach; it's not a systematic as he presents it with his concept of common denominator, resultant rhythms, and key rhythms, distributed between left and right hand.
The way I always practiced this is to just think of triplets and assign one hand as playing the 4 and the other hand as playing three .
It was always a matter of counting to 12 sequentially. For example, if the right hand is tapping out 4, it's hitting on the 1,4, 7, and 10. And if the left hand is tapping out 3, it's hitting on the 1, 5, and 9.
My way of thinking of playing two against three has always been thinking of it as half notes. Three against four has always been thinking of it as triplets. Four against five has always been a concept of thinking of it as 16th notes .
Obviously, his way is better, more logical, more intuitive, etc. you'll notice that none of the horn players at the end --- and they all seemed like decent players, especially the older guy who is clearly a professional ---were able to tap out three against four correctly consistently on their laps. If you can't do that, you can't internalize it in your music and your lines. .
-
It's quite hard to get this. I practice this a lot at different tempos, and the quarter triplet too. Originally Posted by NSJ
For me the trick lies in feeling the second note of the quarter triplet which happens to be on the 2nd triplet if you like of the second beat.
-
3rd quarter note triplet or second half note triplet? Originally Posted by christianm77
For me, once you get into triplets, the relationship to the big beat : one, two, three, four.... is much more difficult and cerebral, as an entry point to feeling the music. When you're mixing two and three, the whole reference and organization kind of changes imo. The least common denominator, the eighth note triplet, is the organizer, just as the eighth note or 16th is in straighter feels. Originally Posted by christianm77
And I really don't view them any differently. They bear exactly the same relationship to right and left hand for drummers, the same for piano , or better: arpeggiated Right Hand patterns of two or three notes. Drums are cool , but as a guitarist, the obvious entry point to me is in the use of multiple strings, fingers, and alternating pick direction. I can understand that horn players probably need to relate more to something with alternating fingers or hands, like a drum, but for pianists and guitarists, I would just think it's just a jumping off point.
For me, I would view the understanding and "feeling" relationships of these more complex feels -- to the big beat -- as being the RESULT of understanding the relationship to least common denominator internal relationships and not BECAUSE of it.
I don't have these DVDs . Talking out my arse.
-
Obviously I can do this it very slow tempos. The interesting thing about this is that I had a brief conversation with Jonathan Kreisberg about practicing three against four and two against three. I have not seen any of his videos, but he fundamentally disagreed in terms of this, because he said he will feel it in three not in four. He said it is very important to feel quarter note triplets in four . Originally Posted by christianm77
The alternative way seems to be to count it this way: one trip let two trip let three trip let four trip let. The hand that plays the four hits on all four downbeats.
The hand that hits the three skips every other note and hits on the ONE and LET of 1, the TRIP of 2, the ONE and LET of 3 and the TRIP of 4.
Obviously, this is the same pattern repeated twice. It seems to be, results wise, a carbon copy of Longo.
I need to do a lot practice to test this out, whether one method enables you to feel the three more or the other one method enables you to feel the four more .
At this point, I'm pretty much done with buying more videos or books--- other than saving up for the four DVD Barry Harris sets. ( i've been seriously studying Gary Harris vicariously through Kingstone, Hurr, and Grasso--- time to go to the source ) I can't get distracted. I have to focus because I think I'm finally starting to put things together in a way that I actually like it .
-
The second note of the half note triplet falls on the second eight triplet of the second 4/4 beat. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
That sounds way more complicated then it is. What I am trying to say is feel where that second note of the half note triplet is. It's an accent we don't commonly think about in swing time, but once you feel it, it's everywhere.
-
It's not complicated but the trick and the devil of the details lies in getting it up the tempo. Originally Posted by christianm77
Everything increments sequentially by one . The first half note triplet is on the downbeat of one (ONE) . The second half note triplet hits on the second part of the second triplet (TRIP). The third half note triplet hits on the third part of the third tripLet (LET). Obviously there is no fourth half note triplet.
-
Try tapping this rhythm out with tunes at different tempos. Record yourself and listen to how accurate you are .... Or not.... Originally Posted by NSJ
It's not complicated but the trick and the devil of the details lies in getting it up the tempo.
Everything increments sequentially by one . The first half note triplet is on the downbeat of one (ONE) . The second half note triplet hits on the second part of the second triplet (TRIP). The third half note triplet hits on the third part of the third tripLet (LET). Obviously there is no fourth half note triplet.
-
at this point not. Originally Posted by christianm77
Loved the remark in the video -----Dizzy subtly walks up and whispers into the year: "you need to figure out the half note triplet".
Boom there it is !!!
PS. The dizzy verve box on Mosaic is one of the most absolutely killing music collections I have. It's almost criminal how little emphasis this incredible music gets in 2016 even by Jazz muaians.
This reminds me that I'm going to dig it out and wear it out and listen to it and listen to it and listen to it and listen to it .Last edited by NSJ; 10-16-2016 at 09:53 AM.
-
I had somewhat recovered from this "disease" until I started following this thread. Got me tapping while driving again .
-
I Think that the Indian solfege you're alluding to is actually the western interpretation of Carnatic music developed about 20 years ago. It's pretty useful. Giving syllables to Beats and rhythms really helps internalize them. I do it. Anything is better than one eee and a. Nothing is more simple and elegant than the numeric counting of additive rhythms that Mike talks about, though.
That said, I actually want to play Four v three v two on the instrument, playing two lines at once, One in the bass, one in the soprano, perhaps Using wider intervals , tenths and thirteenths , etc. or perhaps a bass note and a three note chord on the top strings.
-
Here's how Mike breaks down three against four , and how to clap it with both hands .
(1) First of all find the common denominator of 3 v 4, which is 12 . Chart out 12 beats .
(2) assign the right had to play 3, so it plays on the 1, 5, and 9.
(3) assign the left-hand to play 4, so it plays on that 1, 4, 7, and 10.
(4) The resultant rhythm is 1,4,5,7, 9, and 10.
(5) the key Rhythm, translated to 4/4, is dotted quarter, 8th note, quarter note, quarter note, 8th note, and dotted quarter. both left-hand and right-hand play on the 1, or first dotted quarter; The left-hand plays on the next 8th note, the right-hand plays the quarter note , The left-hand plays the next quarter note, the right-hand plays the next eighth note, and finally the left-hand plays the final dotted quarter note .
Reply With Quote
D'Addario Eclipse Rechargeable Headstock Tuner
Today, 01:55 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos