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Originally Posted by joe2758
I have to say that these short one or two beat phrases is what caught my attention. They really seemed to be the "words" of the bebop language, whereas there is a lot out there on the "grammar". I haven't been playing jazz long, but I had not seen anything like it in any other learning source.
There is a lot of this kind of information for building Blues solos out of just the minor pentatonic. For eg, the ubiquitous chromatic 5-6b-6-R-3b(...hold with bend...)-R. But most of what I've come across for bebop has been in the form of two to four measure ideas or discussions about triads and making the changes (all very valuable in its own right, just not this component).
Any more information on this in particular, or where I could get these ideas more in detail from BH or one of his disciples specifically about the concept of these mini bebop "words" would be great! From the previews it does not seem to be addressed specifically by Roni, Pasquale, or Alan. Perhaps it just seems too basic to even cover, but for a bop neophyte learning these very essential phrases (and hearing them actually played to tempo in context) is a huge leg up.
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10-03-2016 10:15 PM
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I'll eventually have to have these as well. Honestly, Barry Harris is probably worth watching even if you don't play. Always love hearing him talk about the music.
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Originally Posted by rlrhett
There are certainly phrases and stylistic devices associated with bebop. As mentioned above, the Charlie Parker Omnibook is chock full of them and NSJ gave a great example at post #5. A good, guitar-focused primer would be Bruce Forman's bebop guitar video at MyMusicMasterClass. $18 for the download.
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Re 1st Barry Harris video:
Best moment: 'Rhythm is our most important thing'.
Re the rest: Though I love few people more than Mr. Harris, I was a 'dropout' b/c I don't think scales, but melodies. I also couldn't quite keep up w/his fast instructions, i.e. 'play the 5th going up to----then come back down on this beat' etc. I simply cannot process info that quickly, then realize it immediately in a tactile way.
What I did get being around Barry (mostly in the '80s-'90s) was when he talked about the songs. Not bebop heads, songs. It was a bit of a drag whoever edited this didn't let A Time For Love play out. I would have liked to hear what he 'said' on certain chords. Also like his ballads touch.
We had some good times back at the JCT playing songs. I remember one afternoon just him and me there, Barry sitting at a front piano and me calling titles. I remember he played Flamingo for me, and always dug my taste in tunes. We had a big band, too. Barry was a natural arranger and had good charts on Wave (sung by Audrey Blandings, now Checere (sp?) ), and his own Nascimento. When we had gigs Barry, Audrey and another singer, Jean Hanna, used to make up hilarious blues lyrics on the spot.
Like I said, good times. With a great man...
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Originally Posted by fasstrack
I got the impression a lot of the guys had worked on the DVD before going to the class. This was mid noughties....
I do like that the material is practiced at tempo. Slow practice is great, but sometimes it's good to just play things at tempo. I just need a lot of practice getting used to running things like that... but maybe it sinks in deeper (that's what I tell myself haha)
What I did get being around Barry (mostly in the '80s-'90s) was when he talked about the songs. Not bebop heads, songs. It was a bit of a drag whoever edited this didn't let A Time For Love play out. I would have liked to hear what he 'said' on certain chords. Also like his ballads touch.
We had some good times back at the JCT playing songs. I remember one afternoon just him and me there, Barry sitting at a front piano and me calling titles. I remember he played Flamingo for me, and always dug my taste in tunes. We had a big band, too. Barry was a natural arranger and had good charts on Wave (sung by Audrey Blandings, now Checere (sp?) ), and his own Nascimento. When we had gigs Barry, Audrey and another singer, Jean Hanna, used to make up hilarious blues lyrics on the spot.
Like I said, good times. With a great man...Last edited by christianm77; 10-04-2016 at 07:49 AM.
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Originally Posted by fasstrack
There's a local guy around here - Thaddeus Hogarth. He plays funky R&B type stuff, but he uses a real jazzy approach to pentatonics (not all that different from Jerry Bergonzi's stuff). So he wrote a book about that. But the publisher (Berklee Press, I think - he teaches at Berklee) wouldn't let him call it that. It had to be "R&B Guitar" or some such thing.
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There are certainly phrases and stylistic devices associated with bebop. As mentioned above, the Charlie Parker Omnibook is chock full of them and NSJ gave a great example at post #5. A good, guitar-focused primer would be Bruce Forman's bebop guitar video at MyMusicMasterClass. $18 for the download.
The Barry harris 54321 system althought cool but i get the impression it's just another attempt to shortcut the Bebop language ! the best place to start IMHO is Charlie parker and bud powell ! So i hope the more experienced guys here would inlighten us more about the Omni book and how to work on it !
I realy likeed the preview of forman's Bebop video , sounds like i'll buy it , althought i just got grasso's one which is wealth of information too !
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lol can you imagine...
I don't know what I would do if I wrote a book about a chunk of my playing style that took a lifetime to develop and the publisher be like, "Nah, it's called guitar for complete n00bs"
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[QUOTE=mooncef;699281] So i hope the more experienced guys here would inlighten us more about the Omni book and how to work on it !
QUOTE]
time for me to shutup haha
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Originally Posted by mooncef
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time for me to shutup haha
Originally Posted by Boston Joe
Last edited by mooncef; 10-04-2016 at 08:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Hey I just want to clarify something:
The 5-4-3-2 isn't a major component of the Barry Harris system; it's almost like an aside. Like someone above said (I think David?), he says they're just little things to "get you out of trouble." If you bought the dvds just for the 5-4-3-2 stuff you'd be disappointed as there's very little beyond what was already discussed here. I DO whole-heartedly recommend the DVDs though, as the other stuff is all just as good.
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Originally Posted by mooncef
I thought this would be more productive than wading through the whole lot, then reaching the end and being unable to remember any of it!
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Cool Graham, sounds like what I'm doing!
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I find birds music makes more sense when I learn it by ear
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I have also found it very beneficial over the years to listen to Dexter Gordon, as he plays phrases which are generally simpler and slower than Parker, so easier to 'hear'. On ballads, he plays essentially the same stuff but at snail pace, so even better!
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Originally Posted by mooncef
Last edited by David B; 10-04-2016 at 09:34 AM.
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About that Barry Harris Workshop DVD (priced around 100 USD). I'm hearing it's worth it. I mean really, really worth it. Right?
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
The following areas are highlighted, each presented in a ‘clinic’ setting:
The ABC’s of the jazz vocabulary
The opening section features an in-depth examination of scales and deals with the topic of both what and how to practice. Approx. 60 mins.
Application of the above to key song forms
Presented here are methods of turning scales into unlimited sources of improvisational ideas- applied to the blues, rhythm changes, Cherokee, Indiana and How High The Moon. Approx. 60 mins.
Movable Chords for the piano and guitar
Barry’s unique approach to chord voicing and movement is outlined here demonstrated on several standards. Approx. 45 mins.
Focus on the Rhythm Section
Here, accompaniment is addressed, along with the function and interaction of each instrument in the rhythm section. Approx. 45 mins.
Vocalizing
Key points for the vocalist including warm-ups, phrasing, breathing, improvising and presentation are demonstrated and applied to a beautiful ballad. Approx. 45 mins.
Chapter 1: The Basics- Foreword
- Scale practice or “the ABC’s”
- Expanatory Notes
- The Harris Half-Step Practice Model
- The Dominant 7th Scale Half-Step Rules
- The Major Scale Half-Step Rules
- The Minor Scale Half-Step Rules
- Chromatic Scale Breakdown Chart
- The Diminished Chord and its 4 ‘Related’ Dominant 7ths
- The Diminished Scale
- Related Dominant 7th Scales = Chord Movements
- The Minor7 Flat5 Chord
- The ‘5-4-3-2’ Phrases
- ‘5-4-3-2’ on the Major Scale
- ‘5-4-3-2’ on the Dominant 7th Scale
- ‘5-4-3-2’ on the Minor Scale
Chapter 2: Applications- Foreword
- “Back Home In Indiana” by MacDonald/Hanley
- Scale Outline of (Back Home In) “Indiana”
- Scale Outline of ‘The Blues’ in C
- A Typical ‘Blues’ Progression
- Application of Scale Ideas to ‘The Blues’
- The ‘Related Diminished Chord’
- ‘Rhythm Changes’
- Scale Outline of ‘Rhythm Changes’
- The ‘Important Minor’
- Application of Scale Ideas to ‘Rhythm Changes’
- “Anthropology” by Charlie Parker
- “Cherokee” by Ray Noble
- Scale Outline of the “Cherokee” Bridge
- Application of Scale Ideas to the “Cherokee” Bridge
- “How High The Moon” by Morgan Lewis
- Scale Outline of “How High The Moon”
- The ‘Minor 6 Diminished Scale’
- Scale Practice on the G Minor 6 Diminished Scale
- Application of Scale Ideas to “How High The Moon”
Chapter 3: Moveable Chords for Piano and Guitar- Foreword
- The C6 Diminished Scale
- The C6 Diminished Scale with Chord Voicings for Piano
- The C6 Diminished Scale with Chord Voicings for Guitar
- The C6 Diminished Scale in Single Notes
- Guitar Fingering for the C6 Diminished Scale
- The C6 Diminished Scale in Contrary Motion
- The C Minor 6 Diminished Scale
- The C Minor 6 Diminished Scale Performed Up and Down
- Chords Found on the C Minor 6 Diminished Scale
- “Alone Together” by Dietz/Schwartz
- “Body and Soul” by Green
- ‘The Tritone’s Minor’
- Re-thinking the m7 and the m7b5 Chords
- Moving Am7 on the C6 Diminished Scale
- Moving a Voicing Through the C Major Scale
- Moving a Voicing Through the C6 Diminished Scale
- The 6 Diminished Scale Contains Two Dominant 7th Chords
- Ending a Tune with Movements on the 6 Diminished Scale
- Extending the Previous Idea Through 4 Keys
- Using the C6 Diminished Scale on II-V-I in G Major
- Using the C Minor 6 Diminished Scale on II-V-I in G
- ‘Borrowed Notes’
- Based on “Django” by John Lewis
- Based on “If I Should Lose You” by Robin/Rainger
- Based on “In Your Own Sweet Way” by Dave Brubeck
- ‘Major – Minor – Minor/6’
- Applied to “Stella by Starlight” by Young/Washington
- Applied to “Like Someone In Love” by van Heusen/Burke
- Applied to “I Remember You” by Schertzinger/Mercer
- Applied to “Stella by Starlight” with Guitar Voicings
- The 4 Related Dominant 7ths Used as V7 Substitutions
Chapter 4: The Rhythm Section- Foreword
- “Straight, No Chaser” by Thelonious Monk
- Walking Bass Patterns Emphasizing the Upbeat
- The Whole Rhythm Section Demonstrating the Previous Rhythms
- Rhythm Highlighting the ‘2+’ and the ‘4+’
- Rhythm Highlighting the ‘1+’ and the ‘4+’
- Using Longer Valued Tied Notes in the Walking Bass Line
Chapter 5: Vocalizing- Foreword
- “You Must Believe In Spring” by Michel Legrand
- The E Diminished Chord with Applications to “Y.M.B. in S.”
- Warm-up Exercises
- Application of the Warm-ups to “Y.M.B. in S.”
- Use of the Related Diminished Chord in the 1st 4 Bars of “Y.M.B. in S.”
- “Billie’s Bounce” by Charlie Parker
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Anyway, your previous posts on the Harris material has really shaped the way I've practiced a lot of these technical things the last few months, and much of it comes down to rhythmic focus I picked up from some of your examples. When the rhythmic structure is fairly constant, at least in the beginning, it simplifies a lot of technical issues, especially with the right hand, at least for me.
For example, I've been working four-note arpeggios in two octaves, four inversions. By actually addressing them as inversions and always starting/ending on the same string/finger, the right-hand is mostly the same for all. I found my right-hand technique is actually much better than I ever thought it was. I was simply dealing with too many variables with new material, before. I would say that my right-hand technique is exponentially better at playing RANDOM patterns, ironically, as a result of practicing a lot of CONSTANT patterns, both in terms of fretboard layout, and right hand.
Thanks for the videos and posts on this BTW. I find Harris's focus on rhythm in learning these rudiments to be really key to its appeal. I'll have to check the videos out soon.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 10-04-2016 at 10:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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This is kind of a Reg thing.
G Maj 7, G to G, from 2nd finger/ third fret (to 1st string G and back).
Then, B to B 2nd finger/7 th fret...
D To D, 2nd finger...
F# 2nd (or 3rd)
Anyway, that B to B is a definite reg-specific kind of fingering, but makes a lot of sense kinesthetically, if you already know that scale fingering and work these inversions.
One thing that's interesting, is that if you work them as straight two octaves patterns, you can pretty easily slide up to the next position and continue without breaking stride, rhythmically/melodically, esp.because of the common finger. And of course, the right hand thing is really a huge benefit.
I've been doing some simple targeting patterns from the Richie Zellon exercises last couple of weeks. One component I felt was really missing in those exercises was a kind of rhythmic continuity. If you're targeting thirds and sevenths, for example. you play one pattern, and there's a kind of rhythmic pattern where the thirds and sevenths land. When you go to a new position and start from the lowest possible note, it often breaks that rhythmic pattern. Limiting to two octaves and always starting with second finger makes it really easy to Hanon-ize these kind of things.
Probably should do a video on this. It doesn't make any sense in text. I'm really just learning this stuff myself, but it's very compelling. Feels a lot more like things you would do in beginning piano or saxophone etc.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 10-04-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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Matt, if I can do a video to share what I know, anyone can. What I mean is you don't have to be Reg or even close to share your thoughts. I'd be interested the video
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I think I get the idea. Sounds like a good exercise.
Anyone know who made this? goodwill
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