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Hello guys!
As so many others, I'm a young, aspiring jazz guitarist. I spend many hours daily just practicing, and have been working on my bebop vocabulary for the past year, being a huge fan of Bird, Joe Pass, Stitt etc. I have one problem however, which is that I feel like I repeat myself too much, more or less the same lines without enough change. I do believe this is a common problem, but I'm desperately looking for ways to play with more variation in my lines and coming up with new ideas. For this reason I spend much time these days working on lines and vocabulary, but have one question as to what way is best for practicing this.
One approach I've tried is to take a II-V line, spend 1 hour playing standards and every time a II-V pops up play the line exactly as it is, later that day spend 1 hour making up lines using the minor section of the line as it is and mixing/changing the dominant and major section of the line completely, later again do the same for the dominant section for 1 hour and at last do the same with the bit of major language for an hour as well. This approach seems to really get the one line absorbed, however, it also leaves me with a million other options that I feel I need to spent a long time with as well and suddenly there's 6 months work from just one line. It also still just makes me feel like I end up playing that line too much.
The other approach I've tried is to play tunes rubato or out of time so to speak, so one chord at a time, which I give myself time to really listen to, and then playing exactly what I hear, so I'll play the chord, sing something over it and basically transcribe what I sing/hear straight away, often resulting in different lines than I would play when I improvise at a medium or up-tempo tempo, yet still very bebopy as I like. The problem about this approach is, that I don't get to work on all the lines I've transcribed, and at medium/fast tempos I still can't make up lines/variations as efficiently. I would do this for about 4 hours per day as well, but once I have some lines from doing this, I do not go back working on them, continuing with this approach.
How would you guys suggest working on this? Any other ideas for not repeating oneself too much? Thanks! :-)
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06-21-2016 07:55 AM
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Get the Barry Harris DVD. Working through his stuff has done a lot to advance my vocabulary and how you can go from scales into actual phrases that you find in real solos by Bird, Bud etc....
It's a reasonable investment though.
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Any line you play...and are sick of, can be re-shaped in an enormous number of variations IF you're aware of the fundamentals of that "lick". Too, if you're aware of a phrase from an aural and functional perspective rather than something you play with your hand to plug into a change, I've found the rhythmic aspect is more likely to come through.
When you're confronted by a chord change, what's your process? Do you have an idea of what direction you'll take your line?
Do you have an idea of what tools you'll use based on the different sounds you get from scale segments vs chord tones?
Do you have some visual idea of the role and effect of embellishments?
Do you have enough rhythmic vocabulary so any one of your lines can be changed by displacing the beat(s)?
Do you have a thorough command of your embellishment vocabulary?
Have you spent any amount of time just creating 5 variations on the root of a chord going to the 5th of the chord for example? (ascending, descending, long tones, arpeggio with chromatic approach tones, changing direction, etc)
What I'm trying to say is if your practice time is spent being aware of your possibilities, that will inform what you put into your fingers. That done with an awareness in your ear and good ear training in hearing where you're going can make the experience of creating a line with originality and conviction easier for a greater percentage of the time.
Practice options and awareness. Or you can just transcribe a different solo too. Lots of things, up to you.
My two cents.
David
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One thing I've found especially fruitful: Spend some time composing phrases. Like, for example, write a little lick that targets the #5 of a dominant chord. I find that when I compose licks, I come up with more interesting stuff than trying to construct them on the fly. Once you've written a lick and gotten it under your fingers, then you can apply David's method of working variations on it - rhythmic displacements, etc.
(Lately I've been using the Triadic-chromatic method to compose phrases, but that's another post.)
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Which DVD is that Christian, out of curiosity?
Originally Posted by christianm77
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Jazz School Online - Barry Harris Workshop Video I'm sure he means this one, but if not...I recommend it!
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lay down a vamp - 1 bar of Bbmaj then 1 bar of F7 say - and then play over it
you need to realize that you don't have to play Bbmaj when the Bb maj chord is sounding etc. - you can decide yourself what harmonic structure to impose on the 'changes'
you could play all F7 - with a very occasional nod to Bbmaj7
or you could play all Bbmaj7 with a very occasional nod to F7
and you can place your phrases ALL AROUND THE BAR LINE - so try starting the same phrase in different places etc.
this exercise might help you to start to appreciate how much 'wiggle room' there can be between the changes and the line
but perhaps this does require you to be playing lines that already 'work' - in the sense that the strong notes (not always chord tones but most often) are on the strong beats
once you've made that rock solid connection between line and harmony you can move things around a very great deal (thank goodness)
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Get a DAW, push the red "record" button. Improvise about 2-3 choruses while taking chances and feel free to mess up. Listen through your whole recording. Now there should be a few fresh sounding neat licks. Transcribe those. Write them down to a notebook with solid thick covers so it makes it feel more important. Each day play through all of those once. Or twice. Or more.
..oh. Listen very carefully because some might be good but are played badly. Easy to pass some of them as nonsense.Last edited by emanresu; 07-16-2016 at 05:31 PM.
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DAW? Quaint.
You could just record yourself on your phone, or a laptop or something..
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Yea but what if he nails the most awesome solo of all times? Good quality sound.. just in case
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Whenever jazz vocabulary is mentioned people recommend the barry harris dvd ,im tempted but then again i think it's all in the records! The problem is picking the right choices for transcriptions.
So far i found charlie parker and grqnt green to be the most beneficial for jazz blues vocabulary (lots pf reusable ii v there) in standards not so much so far ..the vocabulary seems to be very personal
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That's it! You will ear train and learn new lines. Grant green is just perfect for this! Originally Posted by mooncef
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I found that the blues has a stronger sense of language , the form is universal and allows to expand on it ,unlike standards imho ,the language is much more personal and variable. If anyone can break the language aspect in standards would be great guys!
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Good advice above, but I'll add something to do with the bigger picture.... I know you didn't ask for it, but the plain fact is that the "problem" you're faced with right now is gonna be replaced with another problem next month, then another, then another etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc . Not only that, but the answers to the problems will change just as often.
My advice, therefor is - be patient! It's OK (in fact important) to spend 6 months on a single detail. Just feel lucky that you have uncovered an idea that takes that long to unravel, because these little diversions will give you your own "style". How do you know if you'd be wasting time down a rabbit hole? You don't- until you've been down enough rabbit holes without catching any rabbits. In other words, Jazz self education is all about trial and error, and stickability. Sounds to me like you're on the right path, but even if in 6 months you think you haven't been, it won't have been a waste. It's all good stuff. It's gonna take years if not decades to reach the top of the Jazz mountain, and there are many roads that will get you there, but the best ones, it's been said, are the paths you make yourself (not the well trodden ones). They take longer because they meander, backtrack in circles sometimes, but if you stick at it you eventually arrive (so they say, many of us here aren't there yet either...). And when you do, you'll have different stories to tell than the guys that found the "shortcut" to the highway.
Yeah, I know, you're young and you want it now, or the quickest way. You wanna get on the bandstand and show people how much you've improved, we all do. But if you can resist the urge to seek the crash course (which doesn't exist) and do the hard yards, you'll thank yourself later. Vocabulary is a life long study, and there many ways to acquire it, as many ways as there players, in fact. That's not a flippant line, it's actually the truth! It's not in books, or transcriptions (although that helps at the start), but in the way you take what you know, and spin endless variations that sound melodically compelling. You gotta take apart the DNA in lines you learn, and grow your own DNA by applying lessons learnt to your own material. There are ways of growing your vocab that no one has thought of yet, they could be substitutions no one has worked with, a mixture of devices that is novel, whatever. Far better to invest in that than to be yet another Wes clone. Invent your own lines, try to find ways to play what you hear in your head.
But the real secret, which often gets alluded to, is to turn any idea into a device which can be applied to lots of different situations. You invent a lick that sounds good against a major chord? Cool, now change the note that makes it work for a minor chord, and again for a Dominant chord, and yet again for an alt dom chord. Now maybe sequence it through a whole position, then all positions because every different position yields different fingerings and hence phrasing options, which further suggest more variations. Understand cellular construction when analysisng other's playing. What sounds like a long 4 bar line might actually be a single cell of a 4 note idea that has been processed through a device. Work out what the device is enough times and you can begin constructing your own devices. These become your personalised method, which makes you different compared with everyone else. Vive le difference!
In short, take the time to find your own way, don't rush and don't allow yourself to feel retarded because you can't play as well as Pat Martino could when he was 14. It's not a race, it's a journey (corny but true), and it is all about enjoying the journey, seriously. If you don't enjoy practicing, give it all up, now!
On the other hand, if you wanna make it your living and just need serviceable chops in the shortest amount of time, then find a good teacher whose playing you like that is good at passing on his knowledge over at least a 5 year period. You'll end up sounding like his other students, or maybe a pale imitation of him, but at least the highway gets you to the mountain top a little quicker than beating your own path. And if you think your problems can all be solved by asking questions on a Jazz forum, then think again. The "answers" are too often confusing, conflicting, contradictory or just not appropriate for what you're after. Everyone here has their own well intentioned idea of what it takes to play their particular style (out of dozens of different styles) of Jazz guitar.
We simply cannot be trusted!
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Excellent advice.
Last edited by mrcee; 12-10-2016 at 12:13 PM.
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I'll just up a link to my video about this: Originally Posted by princeplanet
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