Not comfortable with big changes like all the things you are!

[princeplanet]

That's not bad advice. Mind you, you can play an Em over a C but not a C over an Em

Maybe not in the key of D, but an Em in the key of C will take the b6 (c e g b) just fine. It's all in the handling...

[christianm77]

That's not bad advice. Mind you, you can play an Em over a C but not a C over an Em

Yeah the b6 (C) is a pretty dissonant note over the minor chord (Em). Mind you it works in some or in fact most tonal/functional harmony jazz situations, because the iii chord is often a sub for I in first inversion.... For example:

Bb G7 Cm F7 becomes Dm7 G7 Cm F7

Bb/D Dbo7 Cm7 F7 is often given as Dm7 Dbo7 Cm7 F7 etc

But you can still play Bb over Dm. Wouldn't work if the chord stuck around. Anyway, no iii chords in ATTYA until the end:

Cm7 | Bo7 | Bbm7 | Eb7 | Ab

And I would see that as an extended Ab-Eb7-Ab turnaround anyway.

As always YMMV... But that's why use our ears and make our own aesthetic decisions, right? :-)

If the minor is set up with a ii-V, so F#m7b5 B7b9 Em(maj7), say, in the key of C, then we are dealing with a temporary modulation to Em... So we play B7 into Em, and treat Em as a minor key, (not phrygian) for a bit. Often happens in bridges of tunes.

[princeplanet]

Everyone is convinced that jazz harmony is difficult, so they will find ways to make it difficult. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Anyway, ATTYA - blowing changes:

First bit
Ab | Eb7 | % | Ab |
(Db) | G7 | C | % |

Same thing up a fourth
Eb | Bb7 | % | Eb |


Two keys in the bridge
D7 | % | G | % |
B7 | % | E | % |

First bit with a tag
Ab | Eb7 | % | Ab |
(Db) | Gb7 | Ab | % |
Eb7 | % | Ab | % |

Notice that the two movements here are dominants going up a 4th (V7-I, 'frontdoor') or up a tone (bVII7-I 'backdoor.')

Now all you have to do is come up with lots of interesting things to play on V7-I's and bVII7-I's which is much more fun than tracking endless chords if you ask me. There are lots and lots of ways to do this.

When you get slick at that you may also want to find some fun ways of getting into the dominant chords to start with.

Yup. mooncef, just go through Christian's post history and find all the posts like the one above where he bothers to spell it all out for you, on many different subjects. Always clean, concise and on the money. You'll find enough to keep you busy for a while. Better still, hit him up for a Skype lesson (do you do those Christian?).

[whiskey02]

i recently found out that i'm very root oriented in my arpegios soloing , the fact that my knowledge of the fretboard is a bit weak when it comes to the D G B strings , i think we naturaly learn the E A E string notes fasters , so that's why i always things root on E or root on A then i apply my intervalic knowledge . and that's huge problem since it pushes me sometimes to move to spots without a justification , just for my comfort .

Why do I get the feeling that you just missed your own epiphany? Stop everything else and fix the deficiency you have uncovered! LEARN the notes not just "shapes", play arpeggios up and down one string, descending is just as important as ascending. Focus on each chord as its own entity; a certain scale may "fit" over a chord, but it won't define it. You've got to know every note that makes a chord and you've got to know every note on your finger board.

[christianm77]

Yup. mooncef, just go through Christian's post history and find all the posts like the one above where he bothers to spell it all out for you, on many different subjects. Always clean, concise and on the money. You'll find enough to keep you busy for a while. Better still, hit him up for a Skype lesson (do you do those Christian?).

Thanks for the kind words prince :-)

I do Skype lessons - you can PM me or contact me on my website if anyone is interested.

I'm thinking of doing a youtube vid on the subject. Will post it if I do...

[targuit]

One thing I do to learn and refine the "road map" of ATTYA is first to record a slowed down version of the tune with some type of digital recorder or for those who use a computer DAW that works great. Although I know the song, when recording I use sheet music in standard notation and with chords written above the melody staff as "Fm7" for example. If I'm recording a 'scratch track', I often record a rhythm guitar accompaniment with my voice taking the melody.

The purpose here is to get a simple clear track over which to solo or simply refine the 'arrangement'. The slower tempo is helpful to give you more time to process the changes. One can also then record a second 'scratch track' with you singing a guitar solo. Why? Because usually you can swing and improvise vocally in a more fluent manner if you are not an advanced player. But then you can rehearse over your 'solo'.

I know a lot standards, but I used to allow myself to think that to be a good musician meant that you should be capable to handle any song in any key totally spontaneously in terms of recording a 'flawless' track. Well, maybe, but what I finally realized is that rehearsing the damn song before you commit to really recording really improves one's performance.

Finally, rehearsing in this way helps you get to the point where you "hear and anticipate" the changes and the melody. For me it all begins with knowing the chords but really in performance it is knowing and anticipating the melody. By anticipating I mean you have to be able to sing the melody or your solo in your head and be capable of replicating it on the guitar. But in a relatively seamless way. So you can sing aloud, or hear the melody in your head - but use the melody as your touchstone. In my opinion chord voicings should be automatic and instinctive. If you have to "think about it", you are not ready to play anywhere on the neck in performance mode. So even though I also sometimes use the bass or root of the chord(s) in the measure or phrase, most often it is just an automatic thing with voice leading.

One last thing - I really am "listening" to the music in my mind and executing it on guitar. That connection has to become automatic. I can scat vocally or mentally the melody and execute the voicings anywhere on the neck, but to do so smoothly, you need to anticipate where you are going. So sometimes I just glance at the sheet music for the first note of the measure. Going from point A to point B I allow my subconscious to chart the course. Works very well. The subconscious will get you there.

If you are not at that point in development, you will work harder to attain the results, but rehearsing over your tracks really helps a lot. In truth the recordings that I put up on YouTube are actually what I would call these "work tapes", in the sense that they are often the scratch tracks I'm talking about. One reason some are at a slower tempo or contain some flubs that I am too lazy to re record or to 'edit', especially as I don't have good editing software or capacity in my Korg D1200. My recordings would benefit from a decent software DAW like Logic or ProTools, but I don't have it yet. Nonetheless, while these "works in progress" are not perfected, they can help you gain confidence in playing the specific tunes.

[Longways to Go]

I'm no pro so my take is far from scholarly, but I like to play attyr.

I find practicing comping chords plus one or two or three melodic notes in between is helpful.

If I get lost in a solo, my favorite way to slog my way back is to play a 4 note chromatic descending line ala bebop scales. . . you can almost always find your way somewhere.

[goldenwave77]

Why do I get the feeling that you just missed your own epiphany? Stop everything else and fix the deficiency you have uncovered! LEARN the notes not just "shapes", play arpeggios up and down one string, descending is just as important as ascending. Focus on each chord as its own entity; a certain scale may "fit" over a chord, but it won't define it. You've got to know every note that makes a chord and you've got to know every note on your finger board.

Don't be afraid to sit down and write out, every note in every major scale...starting with C major, and then moving in 4th's (C;F, B flat; E flat, A flat, D flat, G flat)....when you do, you'll notice a certain pattern.

Then find tunes in those different keys....ton of B flat tunes, F tunes , E flat tunes. Then play them in different spots on the neck.

Most jazz is in flat keys but you should learn the sharp keys, too. (C goes to G, up a 5th--adding one sharp, then to D for the 2nd sharp, etc.). When you're done, with the flat keys and the sharps, you'll have all 12 keys...this will all fit on a piece of 8.5 by 11 piece of paper...look at it every day, and maybe in 2 or 3 weeks, you'll have it.

Writing it out will teach it to you better than simply reading it in a book....Bach copied manuscripts to teach himself. He didn't need to---he already HAD the music, but he knew this would cement it into his mind better than just passively looking at it.

The ability, on guitar, to "slide around" and kinda-sorta play stuff can be a real trap. In fact, a lot of people get snared in it, and never play to their real ability. My old teacher, Peter Mazza, used to say "All the notes are right there under your fingers" and he said he learned that from his teacher, Jack Wilkins.

[targuit]

Not Peter Mazza, but if you've nailed the melody note, the rest of the harmony is 'somewhere near by'. Got to know the neighborhood well.

[StanG]

Jay,

From reading your recent posts, it looks as if your understanding and approach has taken a big leap forward from where it used to be. I haven't watched your youtubes, but I bet your playing has as well. I know you have always had a great singing voice.


Also, kudos to you for posting lots of youtubes of your playing without going through the drama and procrastination of the past.

[boatheelmusic]

Once I could seamlessly play the major scale in all twelve keys in each of five positions, improvising over ATTYA was very straightforward.

And if you can seamlessly play all the relevant major scales in only one position, it will be for you too.

[christianm77]

OK, it's a bit long, and I might redo it for brevity, also my hair in the video is quite remarkable. But hopefully be useful for someone:

Also they are playing the Dan in the pub I'm hanging out in before I drive to my gig. I may yet come around to them :-)

[ragman1]

"You've got to know every note that makes a chord and you've got to know every note on your finger board"

Ha! Not so easy.

[Longways to Go]

"You've got to know every note that makes a chord and you've got to know every note on your finger board"

Ha! Not so easy.

That reminds me of something I tell my painting students (with a healthy dose of humor)
"All you have to do is put the right color in the right spot"
if only it were as simple as it sounds . . .

[ragman1]

"All you have to do is put the right color in the right spot"

Well, exactly.

I'm trying to think if I've ever actually named a note as I played it. I don't think I have. It doesn't quite work that way