Improvisation and the Subconcsious - Sonny Rollins

**targuit** · 02-02-2016, 03:33 AM

I love this man! On this forum I often speak of the role of the subconscious in playing music. Sonny Rollins is an amazing player, but he is also an articulate thinker. I have always loved his music, but I wish I could sit down and have a drink or two with him and just talk. Check this vid out.

**henryrobinett** · 02-02-2016, 03:43 AM

I did sit down and have long conversation ls with him twice, drinking wine, one on one. It was amazing.

**targuit** · 02-02-2016, 04:11 AM

**targuit** · 02-02-2016, 04:12 AM

This man is a genius.

**targuit** · 02-02-2016, 04:22 AM

Henry, I'd like to sit down and have a few drinks with you.

I have always felt an "affinity" for Sonny and a truth in his playing. I remember seeing him one time in Italy. The morning of his outdoor concert I just happened to see a poster for his performance that night. I went all by myself. Sonny was playing with his band that included Dave Holland if my memory serves. It was back in the late Seventies or early Eighties. The performance was transcendent which is a word I would use to describe Sonny. Transcendent.

I felt it in his playing that night, and I hear it when he talks about influences, his "heroes" like Coleman and Lester, the way he thinks through his responses. I just feel like its truth.

Of course, even better is that I feel he and I are brothers of a sort. Check out that vid above and what Sonny feels about music and 'spirituality' - the guy runs deep.

Nice to talk with you, Henry.

**henryrobinett** · 02-02-2016, 04:30 AM

Sonny has forever been very special to me. I think I've seen those vids but I'll check them again tomorrow. I've been saying the same thing regarding NOT THINKING while playing as he does. He has a brilliant musical mind and was very patient and kind to me. When we were talking one on one for the better part of an hour - I say that now but really it might have been 30 minutes or just 15! But it seemed an eternity. 1976. He was excited because he had just done a live recording for Milestone at Great American Music Hall in SF, a place I was very familiar with, featuring Tony Williams. It was a very exciting time in NYC. Dexter Gordon had only recently returned. There was optimism and much more support for jazz then than now, by a long shot.

**princeplanet** · 02-14-2016, 09:21 AM

Henry, could you PLEASE let us all in on what you guys spoke about? I'm not a fan boy of many people in this life, but Rollins is in my all time top 5 most admired players of all time. To me he offers something that is much more than the fruits of talent and hard work alone, he's magician. So naturally I read anything I can about him. Any insight at all would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!

destinytot · 02-14-2016, 10:29 AM

"The master works, then returns to centre - and lets matters take their course."
Connecting cardinal points to spirituality: BAGUA: WHY PRACTISE THIS OLD AND OBSCURE ART? - Tai Chi Finder and Cardinal Symbolism: Taking Direction from Native Americ | Token Rock

**targuit** · 02-14-2016, 10:39 AM

Hey, Mike and Prince P !

Sonny is just a unique guy to me. Very thoughtful in a genuine way. I can tell you that the Sonny Rollins concert with Dave Holland on bass was pretty magical in its way.

When I think about it, I was very fortunate to happen to live in RI with the annual Newport Jazz Festival. I think the first time I went to one I was around sixteen or seventeen (sigh...). Saw some great artists over the years.

destinytot · 02-14-2016, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

"The master works, then returns to centre - and lets matters take their course."
Connecting cardinal points to spirituality: BAGUA: WHY PRACTISE THIS OLD AND OBSCURE ART? - Tai Chi Finder and Cardinal Symbolism: Taking Direction from Native Americ | Token Rock

For present purposes, I think of 'in/inwards' & 'out/outward' as 'cardinal points'. Great thread, Jay - thank you!

destinytot · 02-14-2016, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

Hey, Mike and Prince P !

Sonny is just a unique guy to me. Very thoughtful in a genuine way. I can tell you that the Sonny Rollins concert with Dave Holland on bass was pretty magical in its way.

When I think about it, I was very fortunate to happen to live in RI with the annual Newport Jazz Festival. I think the first time I went to one I was around sixteen or seventeen (sigh...). Saw some great artists over the years.

(I know the Newport Jazz Festival, but) I had to google 'RI'

- Rhode Island! Looks absolutely wonderful.

**henryrobinett** · 02-14-2016, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Henry, could you PLEASE let us all in on what you guys spoke about? I'm not a fan boy of many people in this life, but Rollins is in my all time top 5 most admired players of all time. To me he offers something that is much more than the fruits of talent and hard work alone, he's magician. So naturally I read anything I can about him. Any insight at all would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!

Wow. Let's see. That was a long time ago. I am amazed how long it takes some people to ask.

He was there with his wife Lucy. She came later, after he found out it was a party. He had just come before all the festivities to visit. I'm sure there was embarrassment all around since he was out of the invitation loop, but nobody said anything to indicate that was the case.

He was sitting by himself on a small sofa. He was facing the 7ft Steinway and his back was to the Hudson, 43 floors up. Couldn't sit more than two. I had just arrived that morning. I didn't personally know anybody, except Charles. I had talked to Sue a few times on the phone, but otherwise it was all new for this 21 year old. No one was talking to him and he seemed comfortable being shy sitting across from Mingus, who also wasn't talking much. I grabbed a beer or glass of champagne, took a deep breath and sat down next to him. I introduced myself and told him how much I'd admired him. I'd seen him a couple of times in SF. I told him I played guitar and was impressed when I saw Masuo play with him. I asked why he was so fond of guitar. It wasn't used so much. He told me he liked the space guitar created. There are only 6 strings, yada. They don't get in the way so much.

Mainly he got animated talking about the date he had just come back from in SF at the Great American Music Hall. He recorded it for Milestone. He felt it was the best thing he'd ever recorded. Tony Williams played. I think Ron Carter and his new pianist Mark Soskin. He LOVED Mark's playing. I think it became "One for the Carnival" or sometihng like that. I was disappointed in it later when I heard it.

This conversation would have many levels, looking back. I became very excited because I had just recently played with Mark Soskin in SF! We had a bass player named Hashima who played with Julian Priester. This carried the conversation forward. But I hadn't known at that time, the man sitting on the Steinway across from us, was Armen Donelian. He had been Rollins pianist for a few years, up to the point Mark unexpectedly and without warning, replaced him. He was also Mingus next door neighbor and was to become a good friend of mine!

At a certain point you just say dumb shit. I love your playing. You're phrases are so interesting, melodic and rhythmic. I'd LOVE TO PLAY WITH YOU SOME DAY!!! Yes, I said that. We talked a little about standards and why he didn't play them more. He does, all the time! He's just moved on in many ways. I told him that I thought it was an exciting time for jazz. I mentioned Dexter Gordon coming home the year before and what excitement that created.

He asked me a couple of times - "Charles is your uncle? I can see the resemblance!" I'd correct him by saying that Charles and my father were very close. They lived together for a while. Their mothers were sisters. But Mingus himself called me "nephew."

We talked a little bit about meditation. I was heavily into TM. I was meditating an hour a day, sometimes two. I moved beyond TM and was doing some other things. He said TM was good. That's real good. I knew he was into all that stuff. This was 1976? Summer. NYC. That was a crazy time for NYC, if you recall.

That's about all I can remember. Long time ago. Thanks for asking.

**nick1994** · 02-14-2016, 04:03 PM

Henry that was a great story, don't hesitate to share your stories.

**edh** · 02-14-2016, 09:15 PM

+1 for the story.

**princeplanet** · 02-14-2016, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Wow. Let's see. That was a long time ago. I am amazed how long it takes some people to ask.

He was there with his wife Lucy. She came later, after he found out it was a party. He had just come before all the festivities to visit. I'm sure there was embarrassment all around since he was out of the invitation loop, but nobody said anything to indicate that was the case.

He was sitting by himself on a small sofa. He was facing the 7ft Steinway and his back was to the Hudson, 43 floors up. Couldn't sit more than two. I had just arrived that morning. I didn't personally know anybody, except Charles. I had talked to Sue a few times on the phone, but otherwise it was all new for this 21 year old. No one was talking to him and he seemed comfortable being shy sitting across from Mingus, who also wasn't talking much. I grabbed a beer or glass of champagne, took a deep breath and sat down next to him. I introduced myself and told him how much I'd admired him. I'd seen him a couple of times in SF. I told him I played guitar and was impressed when I saw Masuo play with him. I asked why he was so fond of guitar. It wasn't used so much. He told me he liked the space guitar created. There are only 6 strings, yada. They don't get in the way so much.

Mainly he got animated talking about the date he had just come back from in SF at the Great American Music Hall. He recorded it for Milestone. He felt it was the best thing he'd ever recorded. Tony Williams played. I think Ron Carter and his new pianist Mark Soskin. He LOVED Mark's playing. I think it became "One for the Carnival" or sometihng like that. I was disappointed in it later when I heard it.

This conversation would have many levels, looking back. I became very excited because I had just recently played with Mark Soskin in SF! We had a bass player named Hashima who played with Julian Priester. This carried the conversation forward. But I hadn't known at that time, the man sitting on the Steinway across from us, was Armen Donelian. He had been Rollins pianist for a few years, up to the point Mark unexpectedly and without warning, replaced him. He was also Mingus next door neighbor and was to become a good friend of mine!

At a certain point you just say dumb shit. I love your playing. You're phrases are so interesting, melodic and rhythmic. I'd LOVE TO PLAY WITH YOU SOME DAY!!! Yes, I said that. We talked a little about standards and why he didn't play them more. He does, all the time! He's just moved on in many ways. I told him that I thought it was an exciting time for jazz. I mentioned Dexter Gordon coming home the year before and what excitement that created.

He asked me a couple of times - "Charles is your uncle? I can see the resemblance!" I'd correct him by saying that Charles and my father were very close. They lived together for a while. Their mothers were sisters. But Mingus himself called me "nephew."

We talked a little bit about meditation. I was heavily into TM. I was meditating an hour a day, sometimes two. I moved beyond TM and was doing some other things. He said TM was good. That's real good. I knew he was into all that stuff. This was 1976? Summer. NYC. That was a crazy time for NYC, if you recall.

That's about all I can remember. Long time ago. Thanks for asking.

Great story, cheers! I wonder why he spoke so highly of that recording if you thought it wasn't so great. Probably worth hunting it down for a curious listen. Also, I wonder what he would have thought of Dexter's playing in 1976 ...... (another magician

) ....

**henryrobinett** · 02-14-2016, 11:59 PM

It was called Don't Stop the Carnival. I loved earlier Rollins. Even then, I loved his playing with Miles and Without a Song, The Bridge. By this time he was playing straight 8ths calypso. It just wasn't very interesting to me. It still isn't.

**princeplanet** · 02-15-2016, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

It was called Don't Stop the Carnival. I loved earlier Rollins. Even then, I loved his playing with Miles and Without a Song, The Bridge. By this time he was playing straight 8ths calypso. It just wasn't very interesting to me. It still isn't.

I see. And yes, I'm a bigger fan of the earlier Rollins also, I mean the guy could have stopped playing after The Bridge, or the Live Village Vanguard trio stuff, and still be considered as one of the greatest true improvisors of all time, right?