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This forum brought a realization to me. When I first listened to what people called "Jazz," I would hear some songs that sounded more like what I would hear in a conservative church or in a TV Soap where a female character is dreaming of love. In my narrow mind, I thought to myself that it was not Jazz, and was not sure what it was.
Years later, this forum helped me realize it was that touch of the blues and the swinging feel that I did not hear that caused me my confusion.
Is this need to swing important to you? Is it a holdover from the early days? Do you even need to feel that pulse in your body or can the song be beautiful and straight like a wedding song, and you are happy?
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01-30-2016 04:26 PM
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Literal definition, not at all.
But swing is more than just a triplet feel over 4.
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It is everything to me.
Without swing we may as well play classical music. There is a fine tradition of improvisation there that is being revived by visionary performers...
But swing isn't one dimensional to me - it's not only about the past.... It's about understanding the essential African-ness of jazz and related musics.
Louis swings, Bird swings, but Jaco swings, Chris Dave swings...
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swing is important but how to swing is more important. I was always taught that swing is more about articulation than anything else. straighten out a line and just work on accents and the line will swing that way. that's why I'm not a fan of picking every note because it's harder for me to get a larger dynamic range and to get my accents to stand out.
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Originally Posted by nick1994
The new Peter Bernstein video is great on that.
Went up a blind alley with swing thinking it had something to do with the inequality of the eight notes...
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Amen.
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To me, if it should swing, then it should.. Sometimes thick and heavy, or sometimes light, or sometimes it doesn't need to swing.. I think Miles Davis Quartet playing Ron Carters' tune, "Eighty One" has two sides of the coin. I think everyone having good time is important. Groove, pocket, sensitivity and big ears are important to let the music what it needs to do. It just has to feel good whatever it is swinging or not..
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"It don't mean a thing/If it ain't got that swing!" 'Nuff said.
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Two things I think about when I want to swing (which is most of the time):
Legato triplet feel over 4;
Dynamics (often overlooked).
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I love Jazz when it has a lot of the African or R&B Rhythmic "Feel" happening and I love when badass Jazz Musicians play their thing over R&B type stuff too...but these are all different flavors of the " African" thing that Christian mentioned...some Rock even has it...that's first ...then the "Swing" can really add to that .
Two of my favorite Jazz Soloists have always been George Benson and Michael Brecker and it was that Bluesy R&B feel they have (had), the African thing..and now I hear the Rhythmic Drive in their playing..Coltrane too..really tapped deep into that sometimes..
And not just the "swing" but the deep African thing...Hendrix really went there too sometimes without " swinging" in a conventional Jazz sense.
Pat Metheny once said he was surprised Hendrix got so big- Metheny was surprised that his Rhythms caught on so well.
I can't imagine Benson or Brecker without that "swing".
But if you can get that Groove without swinging with the Harmonic Rhythm and Syncopation etc...that's cool...seems like the really "hard swing"( my term) just adds to it..a potent combination.
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Originally Posted by 55bar
There is no way I could stay on beat with this song. I bob my head and try to feel it and it seems the pace of the others is fighting me, or I am fighting them.
My ears and sense of rhythm just could not appreciate this particular song when everyone else joined in. Love their passion and concentration, however.
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Gotta swing
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Originally Posted by 55bar
And I can't keep my eyes of the performers when I watch the DVD. They are mesmerizing.Last edited by AlsoRan; 01-31-2016 at 11:40 PM.
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I have got to say that one of the best times I had was listening to guys at some local jam solo over a one chord vamp. Each musician that soloed was enjoyable and they would subtly change the rhythmic background riff as the song progressed.
They had more of a neo-soul feel, with that emphasis on "the One" (beat 1), like James Brown taught Bootsy Collins.
Some might not call that Jazz, but they were improvising so that makes it Jazz, right?
It was kind of like this:
Last edited by AlsoRan; 01-31-2016 at 10:42 PM. Reason: added rhythmic example
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well, this might not be a popular or a populist stand, but if you're not swinging, then you're not playing jazz
that's where I'm planting my flag, boys
you might be playing something that has value, and you might well be playing something with a jazz influence...
but if you're not swinging then you are not playing jazz
I mean why do you think we used to say "that cat couldn't swing from a tree" when we were talking about somebody who couldn't play?
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Originally Posted by Nate Miller
So when Getz played a bossa tune, it stopped being jazz?
When Tony Williams played a straight 8ths feel on "Maiden Voyage?"
Or are you using a broader sense definition of "swing?"
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
but I said what I said and that's what I mean. Jazz swings. Period.
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I like the definition of swing in broader terms. It doesn't have to have swing swing to enjoy a tune, because there's other types of music besides jazz that I enjoy.
Swing, groove, pocket, bounce, whatever it is, if it's there, I dig it. I'd call it dedication to rhythm, maybe? I was listening to my fav. live band, Fishbone, the other day, it's been a while, and I forgot how much rhythmic power those guys have! Can you call it swing? Nah, it's funky, but it hits you hard on a physical level, which original swing music does too, no? I think jazz is inherited in there somewhere!
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I agree swing is important in jazz but you guys make it sound like nobody swung since bud Powell. Plenty of people have swung since and will continue to. Metheny scofield Bernstein rosenwinkal kreisberg and so on all these guys can swing but they are much more than just that. That's what is great about guitar players today they are so diverse
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Originally Posted by Nate Miller
that isn't jazz .... 1957 too
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I dunno, maybe not in a traditional sense, but Getz playing Bossa Nova, or Bossa Nova, Swings like *ell for my tastes!
Can anyone date this? goodwill epiphone
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