Practicing and internalizing patterns

[NSJ]

We all practice this, starting with rudimentary patterned ways of practicing scales ( 1234, 2345, 3456, etc)

What patterns do you practice, that may eventually become vocabulary (i.e., used in songs in a natural, second nature way)???

here's one important one I'm trying to get down centering around chord tones, both ascending and descending.

Pick a chord tone, start a diatonic 4th up and descend in a 8th note pattern. Resolve on a chord tone.

eg, 4321, 6543, R765, 32R7

Pick a chord tone, start a diatonic 4th down and ascend

567R, 7R23, 2345, 4567).

you can combine ascending and descending for each chord tone

what ya got ?

[christianm77]

I like the intervals through the mode thing - for example a second then a fourth through the mode. This is a Ben monder idea. So in c Ionian:

C d g a d e a b e f

And so on. You can use whatever intervals you like.

Also Barry Harris patterns are cool. I like the one where you put in a lower neighbour and then play the third. So:

B c e c# d f d# e g and so on

The dotted quarter accent is always hip,

[JensL]

I used to do intervals, now it's mostly 3rd and 6ths.

For the rest, I try to practice all structures I want to use in scales so:

7th chords, triads, triad inversions, open voiced triads, shell voicings, stacks of 4ths (3 part), drop2 voicings

With triads and 7th chords I also do different patterns so 1 5 3 7 or 7 5 3 1.

I don't play it fast, but I try to vary as much as I can

I never liked the 1234 type things too much.

Jens

[bako]

Thinking out loud:

There are several motivations for practicing patterns that influence choice of relevant source material.

1. building technique

This is focused on perfect articulation, relaxation and often fast execution.
The pattern is just a stagnant model to engage and the hope is that the skill
achieved transfers to the relative chaos of music.

2. internalizing vocabulary (as NSJ describes)

Focused on gaining control of new and engaging content.
Once basic execution is achieved in rote form it can also be applied within song form
in a preconceived or improvised fashion.

3. exploration and exposure

Interacting with new sounds and ways of moving with the hope that the ears and fingers
learn new paths of possibility.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These days, I am most connected to model #3.
For better or worse, I rarely stick with any one pattern for very long.

A few things I play around with:

Drawing phrases from existing music and executing them in a scale context, "Hanonization".

Chord pair voice leading patterns or scale voice leading through interval cycles in the mode of the Goodrick Almanac.

Moving structures or phrases chromatically in a 5 fret position to develop comfort with a variety of fingerings to address the same intervals.

Every now and then I break out the Sloninsky book or Yusef Lateef's book

I've used the 1 2 3 4 idea in some different ways

1. applying a particular sequence to random string combinations.
2. 4 note arpeggios in 24 different orders
3. 2, 3, 4 note chords, each with an independent pattern, creating counterpoint or unusual chord sequences.
4. sequences moving at different rhythmic ratios or #3 played against a pedal tone.

I'd like to develop a more organized way to practice bi-tonal dyad arpeggios, perhaps using scale pairs.

[princeplanet]

I'm a bit of a pattern nut, mainly ones involving all sorts of chromatic enclosures around chord tones, but also altered pentatonics which I often further alter by adding one or 2 passing notes to. If I come across a motif or cell I like, I'll patternize it as well...

The Coker Patterns book is a good source, but really, I have no trouble coming up with my own. In fact, I gotta stop with these damn patterns, gotta put more work into making melodies.....

[PMB]

Hey Prince, how are you going about connecting your patterns? Here's something I developed for teaching (it's an extension of the Barry Harris 5-4-3-2 rule) to demonstrate how common patterns and procedures can be combined in a modular fashion to create an extended melodic line. Each fragment connects to the next via chord tones: 7-5, 5-3, 3-1, 1-7.

[princeplanet]

Hey Prince, how are you going about connecting your patterns? Here's something I developed for teaching (it's an extension of the Barry Harris 5-4-3-2 rule) to demonstrate how common patterns and procedures can be combined in a modular fashion to create an extended melodic line. Each fragment connects to the next via chord tones: 7-5, 5-3, 3-1, 1-7.

Going OK, thanks to help from people like yourself! I like and use these kinds of patterns, the first I think of as just a chromatic descent, the next a simple enclosure, then the honeysuckle pattern, then what I'd call a double auxiliary....

But what you have made me think about here is the mixture of them all to create lines. I'm still practicing sequentialising single cells throughout the positions, so I now know what I'll be doing next!

[christianm77]

Going OK, thanks to help from people like yourself! I like and use these kinds of patterns, the first I think of as just a chromatic descent, the next a simple enclosure, then the honeysuckle pattern, then what I'd call a double auxiliary....

But what you have made me think about here is the mixture of them all to create lines. I'm still practicing sequentialising single cells throughout the positions, so I now know what I'll be doing next!

Hey Prince, how are you going about connecting your patterns? Here's something I developed for teaching (it's an extension of the Barry Harris 5-4-3-2 rule) to demonstrate how common patterns and procedures can be combined in a modular fashion to create an extended melodic line. Each fragment connects to the next via chord tones: 7-5, 5-3, 3-1, 1-7.

That looks like a really good way of going about it. Modularising (is that a word? lol) would be good for fast tempos.

That said would it be an idea to practice these things leading into the beat as pick ups - in the manner of galper's forward motion? That should be easy to do with your examples of you just remove the first note of each and start on the offbeat.

[princeplanet]

Yeah, always start with pickups, so many standard Bop ones, but here again, I find myself rolling my own.

[PMB]

Definitely. I'd never play it like that - even quavers taking off from the first beat. I just notated them in that fashion for the sake of simplicity. In fact, I should rewrite the composite line without barlines. They all work well as pickups and generally I'd go with your suggestion to elide the front end except in the instance of the composite line where the first note of each module is the 'connecting tissue' if you like. The underlying chord tones (7-5, 5-3, 3-1, 1-7) are what gives continuity to an otherwise disparate group of gestures.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Thought about this thread some lately, as I've been working some patterns. A couple of observations of things that seem to work for me and are important:

1. Breaking up two-octave patterns into one, when working technique. There's usually a problem spot around the second/third strings, related to the tuning issue there, which needs extra attention. It's kind of a waste to practice the whole 2-octave thing and always have that weak spot there. I like to break things up into bottom four strings and top four strings.

Breaking things up is particularly helpful when learning a new scale , based on the previously known scale. (It's easier to use major as your reference for melodic minor work when it's one octave instead of two, because there's literally only one note different.) I know that's completely obvious, but it's been really helpful for me.

2. Emphasizing rhythm can be really helpful. I've taken the BH pattern that Christian mentioned in the other thread , and since it's one octave pattern, it's kind of become a template for breaking things up the way I am talking about above.

3. It seems important to work every variation of pick direction and part of the beat. Crazy how some things are exponentially more difficult when starting on an upstroke versus a downstroke or vice versa.

As for WHAT patterns I'm working on right now, I'm kind of going back to basics and just shoring up technique on some scales etc. breaking them up into two separate octaves, deciding which is weaker, and kind of hammering away, making sure the pick technique is there as well.

I've really been working on this alternating ascending/descending thirds. I'm amazed at how musical these are, and almost easier than straight ascending or descending thirds. Fun stuff... Anyway, I know this is kid stuff.

[princeplanet]

Like I said earlier, I have a few patterns that I sequentialise throughout the entire range of each of the 5 CAGED positions. I also alter all patterns to accommodate Maj/Min, Half Dim/Dom and fully Diminished. Basically with the aim of having a bottomless supply of material for any Tonic vs Dom situation in a maj or minor key context. Obviously, by repositioning much of the same material, I get all my subs as well.

I've had people suggest that what I do is overkill, and that it's more useful do develop smaller "cells" that are perhaps more useful for the commonly found short chord durations. If that's true, then it's too late! I'm well down the rabbit hole.. But here's why I'm cool with it. First, it's really helping me map the fingerboard in a way that makes changing keys comfortable. Second, I can handle double time (16ths) OK, (I have to to fit all those notes in!). Third, I can always (and do) create small cells from sectioning off the patterns, starting from any of the 6 strings and lasting anywhere between 4 and 32 notes. Fourth, I can play non stop in any modal setting for days because all the patterns are long and join into others.

It's a lot of work to get the patterns (a dozen or so?) working in both directions, for every position, and every chord type (as well as common subs) in every key. I make sure I can do any routine all over the neck with my eyes closed before I venture out to other keys (big help). But that's where the real work starts, where you mix'n'match all the material, in ways that don't sound so programmatic, against actual tunes.

So yeah, everything is just one giant etude in continuous 16ths or (triplet 8ths). This is the part of my playing that constitutes my "filler" material that I can plug in and out of. The real challenge for me is melody creation, where I switch into a different gear and just try to hear my way through my lines without any thought of what the note names are. It's my fun reward part of my practice where I guess I'm trying to play what I "hear" . These are much slower and sparser ideas that break up the "wall of filler", although my aim is now to reverse that, so that the filler gets used to break up the melodic invention....

The nice thing I notice is that the "etude" practice seems to inform my "freewheeling" lines in a way that still finds me searching out ideas that increasing make more and more sense, vertically, horizontally and even rhythmically.

If I were to teach this "method" to some poor unsuspecting student, I doubt he/she would last a month, let alone the years it's taken me to develop! And I'm pretty sure more than a few of you guys are shaking your head in disapproval when you consider all the other aspects of the Jazz guitar experience I'm depriving myself of (working on comping, memorising tunes, playing with others etc etc). But if we all learned the same things the same way, we'd all sound the same, right? When Miles said "Go down a different street", I followed his advice (although he never said anything about there being any "dead end" streets! )

[christianm77]

I've had people suggest that what I do is overkill, and that it's more useful do develop smaller "cells" that are perhaps more useful for the commonly found short chord durations. If that's true, then it's too late! I'm well down the rabbit hole.. But here's why I'm cool with it. First, it's really helping me map the fingerboard in a way that makes changing keys comfortable. Second, I can handle double time (16ths) OK, (I have to to fit all those notes in!). Third, I can always (and do) create small cells from sectioning off the patterns, starting from any of the 6 strings and lasting anywhere between 4 and 32 notes. Fourth, I can play non stop in any modal setting for days because all the patterns are long and join into others.

I'd disagree with those people... They are probably the sort of people who actually think of a ii-V-I as a ii-V-I and not T/D or V-I, bless their cotton socks. ;-)

... I'm pretty sure more than a few of you guys are shaking your head in disapproval when you consider all the other aspects of the Jazz guitar experience I'm depriving myself of (working on comping, memorising tunes, playing with others etc etc). But if we all learned the same things the same way, we'd all sound the same, right? When Miles said "Go down a different street", I followed his advice (although he never said anything about there being any "dead end" streets! )

Quite right.

[princeplanet]

I'd disagree with those people... They are probably the sort of people who actually think of a ii-V-I as a ii-V-I and not T/D or V-I, bless their cotton socks. ;-)....

Hehe, although I must say that I have recently found dissatisfaction applying T/D to 2 - 5 - 1 in minor keys. I dig T/D for everything else, but since re working my 2-5's in minor with some different approaches, I'm no longer happy to think 2 over 5 or even 5 over 2 . Too "floaty" ...

[matt.guitarteacher]

Like I said earlier, I have a few patterns that I sequentialise throughout the entire range of each of the 5 CAGED positions.

great post.

[christianm77]

Hehe, although I must say that I have recently found dissatisfaction applying T/D to 2 - 5 - 1 in minor keys. I dig T/D for everything else, but since re working my 2-5's in minor with some different approaches, I'm no longer happy to think 2 over 5 or even 5 over 2 . Too "floaty" ...

I tend to treat minor ii-V-I's ATM as bVII-viio7-Im, super boppy. That said you don't need to bother with all three if you don't want to.

bII7-Im is just dandy when you get bored of that.

I'm constructing my lines out of dominant scale stuff though, rather than arpeggios per se.

[princeplanet]

I tend to treat minor ii-V-I's ATM as bVII-viio7-Im, super boppy. That said you don't need to bother with all three if you don't want to.

bII7-Im is just dandy when you get bored of that.

I'm constructing my lines out of dominant scale stuff though, rather than arpeggios per se.

OK, but all my patterns/devices target chord tones via various embellishments (mostly various chromatic), so if we're in A min, I think I've tried all the below to see if I could get a vibe choosing just one for the 2 and 5:

B D F A ......... ii half dim

B D F G#........ V7b9 (rootless - same as viio7)

B D F G ......... bVII7

Bb D F G#........ bII7


Each sounds OK, but just having the A drop to the G# is such a definite harmonic shift that once you get used to it, sitting on the G or G# doesn't "cut" it anymore! And this is coming from the guy who once started a thread saying I was happy to use my maj 2-5 material over the rel Min... It's just another stage I'm going through to train myself to appreciate the colour change, so that it's the default, and anything else that I might later revert to in the way of "generalising" is because I want to, not because it's all I know . I think we all neglect Minor keys too much, and that's bad, that's where the cool stuff is!

Funny though how generalising the 2-5 in Maj by thinking Dominant over the 2 as well as 5 presents no such issue to my ear. I've known folks that simply must hear that C note as part of Dm7 resolving to the B in G7, but I'm fine with playing vii half dim over both. I just need to know that I'm not using T/D as a crutch or shortcut. I want to state that I'm really only this anal with the "Etude" patterns, to train my ears and fingers into good habits that can always be broken later. But when I freewheel, my lines make harmonic sense, but there's always the weird stuff that sounds good to me that defies analysis. I kinda like to use blue notes it seems, in the weirdest places (even though I don't train for them...).

This is where listening to Jazz informs what we do without us realising- gotta love that- although, that doesn't explain where my "bluegrass" riffs come from, I never listen to Bluegrass!

[christianm77]

OK, but all my patterns/devices target chord tones via various embellishments (mostly various chromatic), so if we're in A min, I think I've tried all the below to see if I could get a vibe choosing just one for the 2 and 5:

B D F A ......... ii half dim

B D F G#........ V7b9 (rootless - same as viio7)

B D F G ......... bVII7

Bb D F G#........ bII7


Each sounds OK, but just having the A drop to the G# is such a definite harmonic shift that once you get used to it, sitting on the G or G# doesn't "cut" it anymore! And this is coming from the guy who once started a thread saying I was happy to use my maj 2-5 material over the rel Min... It's just another stage I'm going through to train myself to appreciate the colour change, so that it's the default, and anything else that I might later revert to in the way of "generalising" is because I want to, not because it's all I know . I think we all neglect Minor keys too much, and that's bad, that's where the cool stuff is!

Funny though how generalising the 2-5 in Maj by thinking Dominant over the 2 as well as 5 presents no such issue to my ear. I've known folks that simply must hear that C note as part of Dm7 resolving to the B in G7, but I'm fine with playing vii half dim over both. I just need to know that I'm not using T/D as a crutch or shortcut. I want to state that I'm really only this anal with the "Etude" patterns, to train my ears and fingers into good habits that can always be broken later. But when I freewheel, my lines make harmonic sense, but there's always the weird stuff that sounds good to me that defies analysis. I kinda like to use blue notes it seems, in the weirdest places (even though I don't train for them...).

This is where listening to Jazz informs what we do without us realising- gotta love that- although, that doesn't explain where my "bluegrass" riffs come from, I never listen to Bluegrass!

Yeah I'm kind of with you (I think.) The way I approach it is different, but I think it would create the same effect.

The thing I'm getting into is this sort of thing:

Bm7b5 E7b9 Am7

OK, we replace with:

G7 --> Am7

Now, in the case of the G7 we have the option of going to G# whenever we like to get that 'push' to the Am you talk about. However, we've also opened the door wide open to use any of our standard mixolydian/dominant language. For example, here is the family of four:

G7 --> Am7
Bm7b5 --> Am7
Dm7 --> Am7
Fmaj7 --> Am7

But you could use anything - triadic patterns, intervallic lines, bop scales, whatever.

So far this is the floaty sound which you don't like so much - So, now, just slot in that G# where you like and you are done. The entire ii-V-I is expressed just by thinking about one note and the bVII7-I resolution. Even I can deal with that.

Obviously you can also take your arpeggios and alter them with the G# in the second half of the bar. A good thing to realise is obviously an A can go down to G# as much as a G can go up to G#.

G7 G#o7 Am
Bm7b5 Bo7 Am
Dm7 Dm7b5 Am
Fmaj7 Fm(maj7) Am

(Notice that some of these double as arpeggios for the V altered sound)

I suspect this is what you do already, but you can apply all of this stuff to scale patterns and so on, so it's pretty flexible.

There's no rule saying you can't mix it up with the G's and G#'s either. E.g. Donna Lee has a few phrases that have both these notes in there so to speak, and people often regard them as diminished scale lines, but I see them this way.

I reserve the V7alt sound for extra special occasions :-)

Oh, also it's the same as the relative major sixth-diminished chord, if that's your kink.

[princeplanet]

Yeah I'm kind of with you (I think.) The way I approach it is different, but I think it would create the same effect.

The thing I'm getting into is this sort of thing:

Bm7b5 E7b9 Am7

OK, we replace with:

G7 --> Am7

Now, in the case of the G7 we have the option of going to G# whenever we like to get that 'push' to the Am you talk about. However, we've also opened the door wide open to use any of our standard mixolydian/dominant language. For example, here is the family of four:

G7 --> Am7
Bm7b5 --> Am7
Dm7 --> Am7
Fmaj7 --> Am7

But you could use anything - triadic patterns, intervallic lines, bop scales, whatever.

So far this is the floaty sound which you don't like so much - So, now, just slot in that G# where you like and you are done. The entire ii-V-I is expressed just by thinking about one note and the bVII7-I resolution. Even I can deal with that.

Obviously you can also take your arpeggios and alter them with the G# in the second half of the bar. A good thing to realise is obviously an A can go down to G# as much as a G can go up to G#.

G7 G#o7 Am
Bm7b5 Bo7 Am
Dm7 Dm7b5 Am
Fmaj7 Fm(maj7) Am

(Notice that some of these double as arpeggios for the V altered sound)

I suspect this is what you do already, but you can apply all of this stuff to scale patterns and so on, so it's pretty flexible.

There's no rule saying you can't mix it up with the G's and G#'s either. E.g. Donna Lee has a few phrases that have both these notes in there so to speak, and people often regard them as diminished scale lines, but I see them this way.

I reserve the V7alt sound for extra special occasions :-)

Oh, also it's the same as the relative major sixth-diminished chord, if that's your kink.

Def with ya, the family of 4 thing I have devices for against the ii half dim, but I'll introduce the raised 3rd for the V chord at some point (any where in the bar really..).

As for the

G7 G#o7 Am
Bm7b5 Bo7 Am
Dm7 Dm7b5 Am
Fmaj7 Fm(maj7) Am

I need time to investigate..... but I'll return with some thoughts. Thanks! (BTW- are we derailing this thread?)

[pamosmusic]

If I were to teach this "method" to some poor unsuspecting student, I doubt he/she would last a month, let alone the years it's taken me to develop! And I'm pretty sure more than a few of you guys are shaking your head in disapproval when you consider all the other aspects of the Jazz guitar experience I'm depriving myself of (working on comping, memorising tunes, playing with others etc etc). But if we all learned the same things the same way, we'd all sound the same, right? When Miles said "Go down a different street", I followed his advice (although he never said anything about there being any "dead end" streets! )

For what it's worth - this sounds a lot like what I do. My solution for the part of the problem you outline here is to use bebop heads as my source for ideas. I can still work on patterns to my left brains content, but I'm also working on bebop tunes, and super authentic bebop vocabulary.

I will admit you guys lost me on the detailed ii-V discussion but hey ... I'm a slacker.

[wolflen]

prince...good posts...

I also use melodic patterns as a mainstay in my solo work..If the harmonic structure of a progression (not a tune..no melody is established !) that I can use a scale pattern in fourths of fifths and then use intervallic patterns and have it sound like there is a "melody in there" I will develop it further and run it through the keys..and find various ways to alter it and approach it from different starting points..

the rubber hits the road when there is an established melody and use fragments of it in this type of thinking..I would use any melodic fragment-from a jazz classic to a beatles tune as material .. I have a melodic pattern study with about 200+ exercises (only in ONE key-all diatonic)..in ascending order--mix and match with descending order and you have endless combinations of patterns..add diminished and augmented alt dom and whole tone patterns..well..you have a life time of material to use..

constant practice is the only way to incorporate this into meaningful work..breaking up the patterns with rhythmic punches breaks up the predictability of the patterns..and gives them a different feel..just playing them in 8th or 16th note runs gets very boring..to play and to listen .. throw in a nice blues line in the this kind of stuff gives it a wonderful kick in the ass

[emanresu]

I liked these all 3rds in diatonic, as many fingerings as there are.
starts from 6th string. for example,
Bb D F A C Eb G Bb turnaround, downwards A F D Bb G Eb C A
I never try to use them when soloing. I just wanted the fingers to remember the sound of those chord arps.


I think it worked btw. When doing some random solo, I once noticed "hm.. did I really land on the proper chord notes" and found that I was doing it all the time. Without even trying but here is the vid that got me doing that:
(10 minutes later).. nah. impossible to find it again