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For the sake of the argument lets assume Aebersold chord progression on tunaroud:
F#m7b5 B7#9 (or F7#11 ?) E7#9 A7#5#9
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11-01-2015 11:10 AM
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Looking forward to these answers .... I don't get this turnaround at all
Originally Posted by woland
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Wayne Shorter harmonies stretched the boundaries of functional harmony. If you're trying to make sense of this progression resolving to a Cmi you may come up short. The extensions and alterations written on each chord give a clear idea how to approach the progression. I like superimposing mi6 harmony over these chords so I would think Ami6 over the F#mi7(b5), Cmi6 over the F9 (or B7alt), Fmi6 over the E7alt and Bbmi6 over the A7alt. The #9 described as an alteration over the dominant 7th chords really points to using the minor 6ths rather than the Phrygian Dominant scale for example. The Phrygian Dominant uses a b9 and b13(#5).
The progression itself is not dissimilar from that in Night and Day by Cole Porter. Starting on the b5 chord (F# being a b5 up from Cmi) it winds its way down using the cycle of 5ths (or the b5th of that chord making a chromatic descent). The difference is Shorter cuts the progression short. Instead of cycling down through the II and V chord he skips them and resolves straight to the Cmi. This is the sort of thing that drives music theorists nuts.Last edited by setemupjoe; 11-01-2015 at 02:16 PM.
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I am used to this tune in C minor (Real Book key) so what key does Aebersold have it in? The turnaround as written looks like it would be in D minor. In that case, then the turnaround is basically a double tag- modulating up a whole step and then coming back down to the tonic like is a cliche ending for a lot of swing standards.
The first cadence of the turnaround is a pretty standard minor ii-V in E minor which is the modulation up a whole step from the tonic, giving you F#min7b5 to B7. This is a simple way to create more movement for the resolution. B7 of course is then the V to E which pushes the movement to the next cadence- another minor ii-V leading logically to D minor.
It's the second cadence where it gets clever. Instead of being the expected Emin7b5 to A7(alt), the turnaround has a dominant sub for the ii (E7#9) to create some voice leading- the G# causes tension and resolves up to the root of A7. The E7#9 includes three of the notes of Emin7b5 so it still readily serves the ii function but with some garlic & onions; the bassist may well play a b5 against that chord and so the 5th should be left out of the voicing. At the A7#5#9, the C# of A7 resolves to the root of D minor while the A, F and C are already part of the Dmin7 so there is again only one voice moving, creating a nice tension and release.
However, if the rest of the Aebersold chart is in C minor then I really don't know what's going on there.
With this tune I usually do not play a turnaround. I might throw in a G7alt on the last two beats of the last bar. I think the elegance of the tune is its simplicity of structure and adding a lot of gratuitous movement detracts from that. I don't think I would use a turnaround like this on the head and not in the solo unless the soloist was really calling for this sort of thing or if I wanted to close out my own solo dramatically.
BTW I do often use some chord subs on this tune to give a more suspended, ambiguous sound instead of sounding like just like another minor blues. The melody is so light and flowing that to my ears it calls for something different. For the first 4 bars of Cmin7 I play an Ebsus2 which sounds nice against the root and 5th from the bass, for the Fmin7 I just slide the Ebsus2 up two frets. For the D7 and Db7 I play an Amin and Abmin, respectively, and then Gmin for the last 4 bars (not min7 chord- just minor triads). I tend to let the chords ring under the melody and arpeggiate them where the rests are. The bass plays on the usual chords so I am really playing rootless variants of the chords.
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D7b5 to Db7b5 to Cm works for me
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I believe that the original recording is in C minor and uses the changes Aebersold indicates (as described by the OP). Originally Posted by Cunamara
Setemup's analysis is good. You also can think melodic minor where Joe describes -6. Essentially the same thing.
The difficulty is coming back from the A7 to C minor. The rhythm section on the original recording is working similar miracles with the underlying feels and accompaniment. (Masterpiece!)
As noted, the Real Book's reharmonization is much easier to navigate.
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Thanks A LOT for all the answers - I will try to synthesize the info and do a bit of analysis of my own then post it.
I dug a bit in my own notes and actually found short one - bulk of it is taken from Wikipedia:
Harmonically, Footprints takes the form of a 12-bar C minor blues,
but this is heavily masked not only by its triple time signature and by its avant garde turnaround.
In the key of C minor, a normal turnaround would be
Dm7(♭5), G7, Cm7.
But Shorter doubles the harmonic rhythm of the turnaround, and the progression reads:
F♯m7♭5, F7♯11, E7(♯9), A7(♯9), Cm7.
In jazz jam sessions and for educational purposes players often choose
D7♯11 Db7♯11 Cm7
as turnaround, which also fits with the original melody.
Some obvious connection is that F♯m7♭5 (F#,A,C,E) basically rootless D9.
But I am not sure I see the rest of it.
Although, having a C minor feel, the melody is actually in C Dorian, because of the A natural rather than A flat.
Aebersold's turnaround is:
F♯m7♭5, B7♯9, E7♯9, A7#5♯9(Eb7#11), Cm7
Looking up some forums I see claims that original Shorter's version was:
F#m7b5, F7#11, E7#9, A7b5
Real Book 1 has very simple:
D7, Db7, Cm7
New Real Book 1 has two alternate versions:
F7#11, E7♯9, D7alt, G7♯5, Cm11
F♯m7#11, F13♯11, E7alt, A7alt, Cm11
Jazz Fakebook has:
F7b5, F13, E9b5, A9, Cm9
it also suggests AbM7 as IVth chord which is Ab, C, Eb, G which looks like rootless Fm9
Original chord is Fm7 or Fm11.
Jazz LTD book has:
Db4/Ab, C4/Db, B4/F#, Bb4/B, A4/E, Ab4/A, G4/D, Gb4/G, Cm7Last edited by woland; 11-01-2015 at 07:58 PM.
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I used to play this one regularly. I'd play around the melody at that point. Thankfully, there were so many soloists on stage that I only got a chorus or two at most, so nobody would ever notice the trick. No shame there, listen to Wayne and he quotes the melody during those sections of his solo (that's what gave me the idea):
The pocket changes book also has an alternative run during bars 9 & 10 (technically, not a turnaround because it doesn't lead back into bar 1 of the next chorus...but I understand why you called it that). Basically you can play:
F#7+9 / F7+9 / | E7+9 / Eb7+9 /|
That's the version we used to use. Same #9 voicing, built in 4ths, moved chromatically downwards, which is a cool sound.
Most of the band would play either C blues scale or C dorian licks, really fast. Either that or make honky screeches on their saxes (which actually works really well). We were young. We were full of ****
Haven't played it for about 25 years...but if I were playing it now I'd just target the dominant chords on the back end of each bar.
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What do they do on the record? Haven't listened for ages.
D7 Db7 Cm seems common where I am. I've known this is not the right one for a while..
Footprints maybe be one of those tunes that people learn inaccurately and then at some point in their development discard as being a 'cheesy tune' - much like blue bossa, which is a shame because it seems they never get played right, and done right they are really cool tunes.
I suppose most people shift their emphasis to learning vocal standards, the odd bop head and writing their own stuff after a few years...
Could it also be that the turnaround varied with different recordings?
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Man, I hate it when people wuss out on that turnaround and play D7, Db7. Just play something else. Wankers
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How about C blues scale? Double Wankers??
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Ha har ! Originally Posted by woland
so thats clear then ....
train wreck anyone ?
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LOL - just tried to collect as much information in one place. I have no answers yet. Originally Posted by pingu
One thing that seems obvious that some people scratch their initial on the wall of Coliseum in Rome.
And others reharmonize turnaround on Footprints. Maybe that is what the title is there for.Last edited by woland; 11-01-2015 at 08:35 PM.
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Another question for Jeb Patton. He loves to transcribe piano comping (he's a pianist), so I'll ask him next time I see him. Herbie also uses a lot of poly chords and clusters. That's the problem with Ambersold and the such. They give you the "changes" but what you really need is the way Herbie navigates the harmony and voices the harmonic passages for this tune. Then you will understand why and how Wayne solos the way he does.
I bet Danilo Perez listened to Herbie Hancock play the tune instead of wasting time with the Real Book.
Not trying to be belittling, but there are many of us here that are at a point where we can live without the book... break free from the shackles of that plastic comb binding and fly on, soul brotha
Words fail to describe what notes reveal... it's just really hard to hear what those notes are... no one said that this was gonna be a cake walk...
Mmmm... cake!
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This isn't one to overthink...it's two bars to build tension and resolve to C-.
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I think that's the best advice I've read yet. I tend to overthink and it just holds me back. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The notes say "Use chromaticism over bars 9 and 10 to help connect ideas". Again, simple.
In my band class we use the Aebersold chart. I can't help notice that in bar 9, | F#m5 B7+9 | can be treated as either D7 or B7. D7 and B7 are already related by a common dim scale starting on C. A dorian might also work over that entire bar but I have to try it.
In bar 10, E7+9 can be subbed by Dmb5 which suggests the ii-V cadence into C-. But then we have to figure out how to treat the A7+5+9. Notice that the upper structure of A7+5+9 can be played as Gm7b5. This still contains all the notes in G7alt. So treating it as if it were a minor ii-V to C- might work fine.
I'm going to try to play these ideas over a backing track and see which I like best.
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I just play chromatic lines with some octave displacement over that passage. It is, to my mind and ears, simply a case of creating lots of tension, which then gets released when we hit the groove on Cm.
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Yeah, you can play almost anything if you do it with conviction and resolve well.
I'm sure I posted this here before, but here I am playing completely random stuff over the turn. I think it sounds alright...a good player could make it sound great.
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There's always a way to make something work!
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This is an old thread but it's dodecaphonics. Ignoring the quality of the chords and the occasional chromatic bass line, it's simply a 3-6-2-5 but in D. And it works for a number of reasons
- most importantly, they are great players and it sounds good
- the 3-6-2-5 leads to Dmin which is the 2 chord and modally is simply the 9-11-13 of Cm
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F#m7b5, F# A B E; F7#11, F A B Eb; E7alt, E G# Bb C D F G; A7alt, A C# Eb F G Bb C
So, working with chord tones only some options come to mind.
Make a line using the top notes of the chords.
I decided on C B Bb C
So, the chords that immediately suggested themselves are xx7978, xx7867 xx6786 xx5678
and resolving to x33343.
Another easy one is xx4555 xx3455 xx2133 x0x321
Or make the second one xx3454 (E/F) to preserve the chromatic line.
x7757x x6746 x5635 x4524x. Same grip three times. Chromatic line on top.
So, the simple idea here is to look at the chord tones and find a simple melodic line that you can put at the top of the chords. Then, find the chords that fit below the line, hopefully with good voice leading.
Of course, you aren't limited to chord tones or just those chords. This is just a first cut at the problem, for the practice room.
On the bandstand, if taken by surprise I think I'd quickly notice that F#m7b5 can have a C on top and that F7#11 can have a B. That E7alt can look a lot like Bb13 and then I just drop a half step, maybe keeping the C on top, or maybe having the Bb on top dropping to an A (as in A7b13).
Get a few of them worked out and then take a look at the opening of I Should Care. You can apply almost the same ideas. You end up with some chord patterns you can put into other tunes.
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It's actually very simple. It's F#m7b5 - B7Alt - E7Alt - A7Alt
So you can use Am, Cm, Fm, Bbm or even Gm Cm Fm Bbm
The Gm (c7) is the tritone ii v of the B as discussed on the m7b5 series of lessons I posted.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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What does this mean? Is it a 9th chord, sharp 9.... augmented? Originally Posted by GuitarGerry
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It definitely is a turnaround. It's a turnaround into the ii chord and since it's a modal tune , the ii (Dm7) D F A chord is simply the 9-11-13 of the Cm7.
So it's effectively a 3-6-2-5 into the 2.
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I think just of blues.. not that I play pentatonics or something… but I think if blues
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