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Originally Posted by Maroonblazer
Pat Martino Linear Expressions Phase III 2A/B | Soundslice
Cheers
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05-11-2022 04:43 PM
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Barry Greene repeatedly refers to the linear expressions as a base for his own soloing. He recommends to study the book in several of his lessons. So finally I decided to give it a serious shot.
My question is, and apologies if this already came up somewhere in this eleven page thread, is there video or audio where Pat himself plays these studies, especially the solo études later in the book? I know Pat has several videos out, does he play this stuff in one of them?
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Originally Posted by frankhond
Not that I'm aware of. Would love to be wrong about that, though.
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Originally Posted by MAURICIO SOUZA
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Man, it's getting tricky.
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Having been on a huge Pat Martino binge lately I've finally decided to delve a bit into LE this week. I have to admit, since I'm still not very far into my Jazz journey, the whole harmonic concept of the book is way over my head (or at least I don't think I would really benefit from it yet), but damn it if the activities aren't addictive! I love how much I'm getting out of only the first five activities, both technically and in terms of vocabulary.
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This is the last line I intend to publish. Anyone interested, there is a link to soundslice tablature. Thanks for the tips and information exchange, it's a really fascinating book.
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Originally Posted by MAURICIO SOUZA
Do you feel like you’ve internalized these now? ie like you could play these lines exclusively through changes. I think treating them as licks is selling them short.
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Originally Posted by MAURICIO SOUZA
Bummer.
I was looking forward to see what you do for lines 5A and 5B.
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Hi All
First, guys, thanks for the great work discussing this AMAZING book and video/audio example of MR MARCIO SOUZA demonstrating linear activities!!!!
I am new to this forum and was pleasantly surprised while reading some of the discussions about this book…people do get some creative ideas / explanations that are unique ( being wrong or right).
I met Pat Martino 20 years ago and that was in a bar where we had a Blues gig. We played BB Kings “Why I sing the blues “and as I remember due to not being able to do bends (injured hand and 0.13 strings) I did more “linear phrasing” and less “bending” making it sound more “ jazzier” (I guess)
Did not know who he was at the time and was surprised when “this guy” approached me and compliment my phrasing. I thanked him and we had small chat continuing with bottle of red wine (after my bass player asked - do you fucking know who that is?!))
Anyhow, long story short we talked about music, concepts and he recommended me Linear expressions.
Lot of things we discussed were alien to me back then , however maybe my insight (or what he told me) might open some doors for you guys.
1.SHAPES,SHAPES,SHAPES …………this is the most important thing in LE!!!!!! People complain and state that maybe ( if he wrote this book – and he did) that he does not know how to transcribe. That is nonsense as he did it on purpose . By recognizing shapes - applied in real life (on jazz standards) you see that he uses them all the time – even scarier he used them when he was 17.Therefore he does not “think” in Minor or Major or whatsoever (as people analyze it on YouTube) he uses Minor conversion to adopt shapes to the tune he is playing on.
2.MORE SHAPES = MATRIX…………………………any of Linear activities (shapes) can be seen as “MOTHER FORM” that contains all the remaining linear forms as “children” – this is true to all 5 ‘’MOTHER FORMS” divided on any string / area of the neck , therefore there are no 5 linear activities but MANY more.
3.CHARGING SHAPES WITH MELODIES ….when you have command over shapes you charge them with melodied (ii,V,II-V,ii-V-I,..etc.)
4.PLAY WITH SHAPES AND MAKE THEM YOURS ( derive melodies from them – what you will find (although it’s not as hip as some fancy lines you find from other people ) you tend to remember those lines much better, and it will help you to memories Shapes quicker.
5.DO NOT OVERANALYSE (if it sounds good to you its good adopt it, if not discarded it) . I prefer some forms more than others pending what part of the Matrix they fall into.
6.PHRASING AND TECHNIQUE> remember there are two type of lines Martino is playing :
a) BEBOP melodies derived from the shapes and jazz tradition idioms
b)Linear forms played note for note at high speed.
c)Combination of upper two
Some people are complaining that lines does not work when they are playing them ; but sound perfectly fine when Martino does them ... – I never wondered why I cant play like Steve Morse hahahahaha but seriously this is a physical obstacle and it takes a long time to reach it , although with reduction of thinking time (this scale over this, this mode over that , this arpeggio ..bla bla bla) there is significant increase in mechanical ability to execute his lines. Practicing linear forms helps as you kill two birds with one stone (form and technique/speed)
At the end if I may ask how many of you ACTUALLY did finish this book- not many i guess?
In my opinion all of his courses (True fire,etc) that he made are second to this book ,…this book is so deep its scary and if you take some time with it – 15 years in my case you will see that!!!!!
Good Luck !
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Thanks Bluesman777 for a very interesting post... but I don't understand these two statements:
Originally Posted by Bluesman777
As for the rest, I can only say that I still work on the first part (getting the activities down)... and that just playing the activities over chords is very inspiring and I'm starting to mess around and alter them immediately, they just beg to be chopped up, moved around etc. It does seem to be a highly personal "map" but unlike scales, these make music for me right away. I don't sound like Pat but that will never be the case anyway for anyone.
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Charging Forms with melodies is nothing new and is a simple concept that you already know.
Example
1.Take one of the Linear activities (Forms) (1-5)
2.Now play thru that single activity e.g. (FORM 1) using only ‘’pure’’ form provided in the book– think of it as a Blues box
3.Take your favorite lick,theme,melody and play it “inside that FORM’’ – see it as a part of that activity
4.Combine melody with a “pure form”
5.Make permutations. Play with the new line (line games its called)
6.Now add more melodies and combine
7.Repet this for other ‘’pure forms”
Whole Matrix concept is really hard for me to explain as it is a ‘’personal’’ way of thinking or as you mentioned ‘’mapping’’ .I would need to make some fretboard chart to explain this.
I think that someone already did good explanation regarding ‘’melodic cells’’ ,you should read and understand that first .
However, my advice would be to not rush and try to digest more than you can chew at the time.
This system is highly seductive in offering you false hope of a ‘’silver’’ bullet after you dive into it - as you start to apply ‘’basic lines’’ to practice there is that ‘’wow’’ moment in the beginning that soon vanishes (you can play as much with what you learned so far) .Don’t do that! Learn the system first as is presented in the book.
If you stick to methodical approach :
Phase 1>2>3>4
And not rush try to apply it on Giant Steps right away you will be fine (small joke but you understand my point) , otherwise it leads to frustration as you start to think and question ‘’validity’’ of the system.
Rgs
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Hey guys im currently studying thoses lines but something block me in my progression so perhaps you can help me with this...
At the page 16 he explain that we must transpose the five forms activities either up or down the other eleven keys, what ive done but right after at the phase 2 vertical movement when he is changing keys the lines form are no longer the same than before, for exemple at page 18 for Ab minor the line form 5 is no longer the same that we studied before at the page 15 activity 5... and i really dont understand why ?
If somone can help a newbie in need and explain to me why he is changing the lines !
Thx
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Originally Posted by Apa
At the end of Phase I (pg 16), you are expected to take the lines you've already learned and move them up or down the fretboard to play each line in every key.
Phase II is a new exercise with new lines. In this phase you learn to play all 12 keys in one area of activity.
Don't get hung up on the individual lines. Pat never played the exact same thing twice. Pay attention to the principles that each line follows, instead.
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Originally Posted by FwLineberry
I'm not a full time jazz improvisor, I work with this book mostly in practice sessions. I write a lot of guitar ensemble music (The Guitar Cult) and have worshipped Pat since High School in the 80s. I rabbit holed for a little while just learning a few of the forms over ii-V-I progressions. I'm moving (finally) into Phase 3 this year. This is an old thread for a book that takes a lot of time and dedication to get through. Anyone else still at it?Last edited by benmca; 03-13-2023 at 06:59 PM.
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I’m still on phase I. Took a break but returned to it just last week.
For me it has become, as with learning old music by people like rev Gary Davis, a dialogue with a person I never knew. The music reveals new possibilities now and then, as if the composer just poked me.
Even at phase I the activities are so well written. They become language and show up in completely unrelated stuff I play. In my dialogue with Pat they are his best language composed into paths on a personal map. You can stay on the path, or stray off it.
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Originally Posted by frankhond;[URL="tel:1253664"
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I pull the book out every few months and poke around at it, along with his instructional videos. A little bit stcks each time,
I had the great idea to work my way methodically and chronologically through the material, but my tolerance for learning other player's licks and lines is minimal. I get so far and get fed up.
My current focus is Robben Ford. We'll see how long that lasts.
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I've had the book for years but I sort of put it aside. I picked it up again yesterday and played through the activities. What I noticed is, there are actually a small number of four note phrases that each activity is "assembled" from. These are very common mini-phrases, such as enclosure patterns, digital patterns (1235's) etc. They come up in the exactly the same way (in the same parts of the "chord-scale") in all activities.
Instead of seeing activities as monolithic lines, recognizing these repeating building blocks is very beneficial I think. It'll help you hear the lines better, learn them faster and facilitate creating variations. It'll also make it easier to apply these ideas to different chords. I got pretty much all the activities down in two days. So I think noticing these patterns helped me learn the activities faster than I'd have otherwise.
I looked through the thread, I was surprised that this observation was not mentioned anywhere. I didn't read the whole thread so it's possible I missed it.Last edited by Tal_175; 11-23-2023 at 09:34 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Some years after working through the book it's those small 'cells' that have stuck with me and really influenced my playing. Far more than the whole 'convert to minor' thing. Nailing the long lines as written and then starting to develop the ability to come up with similar lines based on those cells that you can take any direction is a really cool sound.
The other interesting bit for me is that I don't pick everything like Martino does, so I worked a lot on taking those ideas and picking upbeats and adding slurs where I could. Was really fun to play around with.
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