min7 and min6 as basic sounds

[dasein]

If you really want to open up the playing and stop that horrible repetitive change running that so many people teach and play, then do the unthinkable: Play a scale. Use a scalar approach which will INSTANTLY give you more of a melodic sound. Of course before you do this you need to have change running under your hands. Then use scales and actually sing a song instead of this horrible incessant change running.

sounds like a load of jazz nerd stuff to me

[princeplanet]

Practicing outlining changes, usually with arps, for me was/is a necessary stepping stone to more melodic playing based around embellishments, be they chromatic or diatonic.

I can't imagine I would be able to hear good quality lines against changes if not for the long hours spelling them out. You can't just jump in with scales and be "hearing" good lines straight away, unless your a Rollins or a Chet....

[TheAficianado]

I really appreciate this thread, and I am very into the idea of how the information is being presented within min7/min6 sound, and also the "All The Things You Are" intro which is one of the standards Barry Harris has in his tutorial repertoire, and which I am practicing in hopes of one day transcribing Pat Metheny's version off Trio.

However, I wish to invoke a different Pat: Pat Martino.

Pat's take on harmony is two whole tone scales a half step apart, which with flat five substitution can be visualized as the V-I change.

It is symmetrical, meanwhile Harris's take seems to be asymmetrical 7-5 (division of chromatic, typical of diatonic, with an added note, rendering 2/3's of the chromatic like 7.5-4.5 of 12) but that the symmetry comes in threes via diminished, and yet he only uses two of three diminished scales of the chromatic in the Diminished 6th harmonized scale.

I feel that there is a big harmonic difference between the ii-V-I change typical of the Circle of Fifths around the tonal key center (whether major or minor), but a tremendous difference when the SubDominant is called: the IV is a transposition out of the Circle of Fifths of the initial key center creating a different Circle of Fifths set of changes, and thus sounds more harmonically different than what is going on during the typical ii-V-I of the Tonic.

This doesn't change anything anyone has said, and I use all of the insight posted above. But when I come to Martino's angular symmetry AFTER Harris's near diatonic use of diminished, especially the invocation of Monk's description of the half-diminished, the ideas really start to pour out before I try anything "altered" or "outside."

I need to buy about forty new books, and then go back to the jazz phrases dictionary again. But here are some great links to some free resources that may be up someone's alley, Slonimsky shows up:

Free Books | Cochrane Music

I like all the ideas here.

I came here after digging on Wes's use of min6/9 without a root, so I am using a Wes icon!

[Vladan]

hi everyone

hope the following is intelligible despite informal presentation - and wondering if its an approach to standard harmony that people recognize/use....

Long Live Rock and Roll !!!