Best way to practice to play over jazz changes

[Almeisan]

I used to play rock guitar. Then I skipped over to classical piano and classical composing. Only listening to jazz during that phase.
After that I took a long break.

Now I want to get back into guitar playing jazz.


I improvise fine using the major scales and it's modes, hopping in and out of the pentatonics that are part of it.

I've tried in the past to learn it through different approaches.
I create or find certain backing tracks.

One would be four chords from C major, then a modulation to G major.
For keys that differ just one note, I can transform the pattern on the fretboard from one to the other and I know which note I am changing, that it is the natural fourth and the augmented fourth in the one, the major 7th or minor 7th in the other.
Of course this does not give a jazz sound.
Same can be done using a bVII chord. I find this one is actually easier. You can practice playing over a key change using what you already know. But it doesn't get where I want to go.

An other approach is to take an arpeggio approach. I tried to learn to play ii V I's using arpeggios. It is hard to connect each arpeggio with the other. I feel I can eventually brute force it and then make a connection with the major scales and then I am pretty far in, I feel. Then I just need to apply it to the changes of an actual tune and I am a whole way in, since hitting chord notes is so important and since my musicality tells me how to resolve whatever other notes I may play over that chord.

The other approach is the new scale over each chord approach.
Playing C lydian over Cmaj7, playing D dorian over Dm7, playing some G altered or G wholetone over G(need to learn melodic minor or harmonic minor eventually).
This approach seems most problematic. Even when I kinda do it I feel it sounds bad, feel it doesn't connect with the chords.

For each approach I feel so trapped I cannot be musical at all. I feel I am just doodling in one scale/arpeggio, then jump to the new scale/arpeggio creating a disconnect, and then I move on.

So one idea I have is to learn famous licks that connect two chords. Would be a lot of work to find and decide upon licks I like and I want to learn for this approach.

I feel that if I had enough time, I could just brute force it if I wanted it enough.
But with my academic career and my endurance sports and my inclination to be lazy, I don't have time for that anymore.

Visualization the fretboard is always difficult. I kind of feel like relearning the major scale but now with the notes that make up the ii V I chords. So I make a fretboard with those notes coloured.
Same can be do with two scales that share more notes and have the differing notes coloured. Sadly, the looknohands site can't do that. I remember in the past editing fretboards myself for memorization.

So any suggestions? What method to jazz teachers employ?

[cosmic gumbo]

Copy solos from other artists off of recordings. That way you're actually working with tunes and not just doing scale, arpeggio, exercises. Of course you'll be using your musicality and brain to try and find the logic in what you're copying. It's the quickest way to get yourself sounding like you're playing jazz. Remember, it's as much or more about the rhythms, articulation, phrasing, than just the correct pitches. A classical musician can play jazz scales and it won't make it jazz.

Clark Terry - imitate, assimilate, innovate

Jazz Guitar Online is a great source of reference material. Free Jazz Guitar Lessons | Learn How To Play Jazz Guitar

[djangoles]

So any suggestions? What method to jazz teachers employ?

Just my opinion and judging only from your post.....

Robert Conti The Jazz Lines will get you the most bang for your buck.

$40.00 for 8 hrs of material....obviously this is just the beginning... but it will get you

started in the right direction. Once you get some lines and concepts under your belt

and in your ears, copping lines & solos off a recording becomes a little bit easier.


FYI...it is not a "play along", but more of an overall conceptual approach to playing over changes

and mutating lines to fit common situations.

[coolvinny]

I don't think there is any one "best" way. You have to practice a variety of approaches. At first, or maybe even much later, perhaps it is best take a very chord-scale approach to each chord change. Arpeggios are also great. Then there is practicing chromaticism. Also you'll want to apply language you transcribe from the masters. You'll want to practice only playing "what you hear" as well. You'll want to practice playing the changes at a very slow tempo as a constant stream of 8th notes. You'll want to practice always staying silent during certain chords (in a short 1-6-2-5, say you are silent on the 2 chord). You'll want to practice setting the metronome at a blistering pace and just hanging in there. Mentally transposing to other keys. Looping problem bars of the song. etc.

Eventually, I think you need to practice all these things and more.

I think spending a bit of money with a local teacher or perhaps an on-line Skype teacher is your best bet for getting off on the right foot.

[bluewaterpig]

It sounds like you're doing a lot of unnecessary planning...I don't understand what you're saying about the first approach with taking 4 chords...

In any case, the most significant thing you can do in your current position is to start linking your playing to your ear. The most effective way for you to do this right now is probably with arpeggios.

You our said you're having trouble linking the arpeggios...there's your answer. This isn't some glitch that you need to look somewhere else to find a fix for...you need to just face the problem head on. Play as slowly as you need. Even of you have to stop for 20 seconds before moving on, find the connections. The most common connection is from the 7th of the current chord moving down to what becomes the 3rd of the new chord. This is a fundamental sound that you need to be hearing until you can sing it over any ii - V - I without hesitation.


On the side, start listening to jazz. Listen actively and try to identify some common figures. Take a simple, melodic, lyrical solo and transcribe a single phrase (Chet Baker solos are good starting points). The importance of listening cannot be overemphasized.



Can you transcribe any part of this solo, even if it's a quick phrase?

[Petimar]

Use a play along program and improv against one chord at a time. Don't move on to the second chord until you are comfortable playing against the first chord. Learn the second chord the same then play against the first two chords varying the length of each.

When this is comfortable, do the same with the third chord. Eventually work your way through the progression.

If this takes too long, learn a tune with a less complicated progression. It is best to start easy and get more complicated as you get more comfortable.

[Almeisan]

You mean playing different scales against the same chord, like Dm7, and discovering the 3 and 7 and colour notes and get a feel for the sound? Then when you get that move on to like G7?

One problem I have is that I use Finale. It has drum samples but I don't know how to notate jazz drum swing style stuff. Can't get the grove I want.

Going to try some different things. Thanks for the suggestion.

[randalljazz]

Creating swing playback

[Almeisan]

I know about that. I guess I need to ask some jazz drummers about some rhythm patterns. I mean, I can tap them but I can't write them out.

[randalljazz]

finale has its uses, but band in a box will give you much better results in a fraction of the time.

[Lionelsax]

Well, the turnaround can be a good thing : E- A7 D- G7 then C- F7 Bb- Eb7 etc.
When everything runs, try substitutions.

[henryrobinett]

It is very illuminating learning solos and seeing the great musicians are playing over simple progressions. I'd start with simple ones.

[eh6794]

Im the new guy around here so im not much of an authority, but can you hum or sing a jazzy line?

Im reading a lot about Woody Shaw. Try mixing triads to help you with different sounds. Try mixing the four notes of Cmaj and Abmaj7 into a brand new scale. Mix other chords. Or try a run up the neck, from the 5th string C to the first string 7th fret B playing the triads C/Ab/E (major triad, no 7th). That sounds cool.

Although that's not a direct answer to your question, it might make your ear hear new things.

[Jdudeo]

I found that a lot of the sounds I enjoy involve extended chord tones, it's fun to try playing only notes like 9ths, 5ths, 7ths and 11ths and find triads and arpeggios that tie them in nicely. I generally don't find it interesting to play roots and 3rds. I think you need to get to a point where you always know what scale degree you're playing, try saying or singing scale degrees as you play them, then you can start to "break rules" while knowing what you're doing. IMO fretboard visualization is paramount and you shouldn't neglect it.

I think though that at the point you're at, it's probably more important to work on your comping and chord voicings and try playing solo without backing tracks to see if you can convince yourself of the changes with your note choices. All your chord voicings can double up as arpeggios anyway to be used in single-line soloing.

Also I find Morten Faerestrand's videos really nice when it comes to finding new ideas:
Lesson 409 - Joe Pass on "On A Clear Day" 2 |
I would sign up for his paid lessons but it takes me long enough just to get through the free content!

[CGR]

I found the Robert Conti approach really valuable when I was at a similar stage. Get a copy of his "Jazz lines" book & DVD set. It worked for me.

[CGR]

You mean playing different scales against the same chord, like Dm7, and discovering the 3 and 7 and colour notes and get a feel for the sound? Then when you get that move on to like G7?

One problem I have is that I use Finale. It has drum samples but I don't know how to notate jazz drum swing style stuff. Can't get the grove I want.

Going to try some different things. Thanks for the suggestion.

Get Band in a Box. It's the best practice tool I've come across.

[docbop]

Get a looper or small recording device and make your own backing tracks that way you work on your chords and rhythm playing as well as whatever single note or tune playing your doing. One will push you to do better on the other.

[rkettner]

I'm with Docbop. I've been using a Digitech Jam Man Solo and I use it all the time. I'll play the changes, then a bass line. Finally I will solo and listen back to it. Another great thing about it is that you can play at different tempos to challenge yourself. I'm also using it to isolate trouble spots and focus on specific things. Recently, I've been working on inverted diminished scales. I'll play an altered V7 chord and work the scale across the neck.
For me, it's more productive than working on the scale in isolation. I'd encourage you to check it out. Not as good as getting a great teacher but a great resource.