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Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
Avoiding wrong moves is really what I'm banging on about in this and other threads.
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01-02-2014 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Richb
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Rich, when I refer to Segovia's version of the major and minor diatonic scales, I'm talking about an edition of scales as fingered or edited by Segovia. I learned to play them at twelve years old. Some time ago...
As for "illogical transitions", I think one should be cautious about critiquing someone who played Bach's Chaconne. There is nothing illogical about the fingering suggested. But that is in the mind and opinion of the beholder.
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What about Chet Baker?
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Scales are also great for practising articulation and speed on every instrument.
They are a root for every kind of music.
I think every classical musicians work hard on them.Last edited by kris; 01-03-2014 at 10:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I'm not crazy about them either, but Adam Rogers and a few other current players swear by them. I really couldn't see the point of them when I first learned them eons ago, but I dusted them off a few years ago and realized that those ridiculous shifts and fingerings were things that I'd actually done in the heat of the moment. Now, I see them as a sort of catalog of almost every possible shift, and occasionally practice them, not so much for jazz specifically, but for facility in covering the whole fingerboard.
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BTW ..Adam Rogers is a great jazz player and one of jazzers who really play classical nylon strings guitar.
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I'm a big Adam Rogers fan.
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BUT I don't know why liking someone's playing or saying that XYZ uses whatever technique, or in this case Segovia scales, should make one bit of difference.
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These days, I think of scales as meaningful collections of notes.
A family of harmonic relationships centered around each degree.
I don't believe in avoid notes, just varying levels of tension.
The 7 note scales contain a 13th chord on every degree.
Avoid nothing, learn all available sounds, use those that serve your musical intent of the moment.
In this regard chords and scales hang in the same posse.
Every note collection larger than a single note has smaller subsets.
Every note collection smaller than twelve notes is a subset of a larger collection.
Jazz is a music that operates on the plane of harmony extended to the 13th.
While some good music can be made using just primary chord tones alone more often than not the
palette gets expanded beyond 4 notes. Keep in mind that harmony is formed by all members of the
band and not just the melodic soloist.
One approach of doing so is by having a primary collection with auxiliary notes added.
(ex. arpeggio or scale melodies with chromatic approach notes)
Another is one having a primary scale plus approach chords with their own scale derivations.
Classical musicians traditionally have used scale and arpeggio study to first put some fundamental
movements in place and then work on tone and a wide array of expressive articulations.
While this approach can also be of use for the improvising musician, we also view scales and arpeggios as our harmonic/melodic resource center. Taken out of context, with all the ducks lined up in a row, all conceptual methods are at the risk of being applied in a mechanical , not so musical way.
It is our job to reanimate these notes with rhythm, form and a story to tell.
All aspects of music can be broken down, compartmentalized, analyzed in an attempt to better understand
with the goal of playing the music better. We in the West have placed strong emphasis on this interplay between descriptive science and the resultant actions to follow. Music is an aural participant sport, a commentator is a different job description. A child who grows up dancing and singing folk music in 7/8 understands something profound.
As we journey through the great methodological vistas, remember to look up frequently and stay connected to the music.Last edited by bako; 01-04-2014 at 02:39 PM.
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I alway though that the Jimmy Bruno (No Nonsense Jazz) and the Larry Coryell DVDs were very good examples fo what to practice with scales and chord tones. Doing all this stuff is like honing basic skills, it isn't the final product, but ts about keeping the basics sharp and professional.
Trouble is most players have day jobs so a regime of the star players is almost impossible to follow - i.e. four or five hours practice every day. I'd say Jody Fisher's little book about a 30 day practice regime would be a good place to start doing 20 minutes a day on the basics.
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When I was a teenager, about 35 years ago, I had classical guitar lessons and was taught the classical guitar fretboard positions, I remember putting stickers on the frets of my guitar neck with the names of the notes to make it easier. The important thing was linking the positions by logical movements. I've used most systems over the years, but I think 3 notes per string is the most logical, but this can be a bit of a stretch for small hands.
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I've used 3 notes per string since the mid 70s. Make the most sense to me.
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To me it makes the most sense to think of the 12-position system and then see all the other permutations as just iterations of that system with position shifts. All the CAGED, 3-note per string, and Segovia scales fit into it.
The only things that wouldn't fit in would be scales with a span of two frets between the 2nd and 3rd fingers, but I find that so uncomfortable (after trying it) that I wouldn't be interested in any system that uses that. I'm guessing the gypsy guys use these, and I know some of the guys who only play with 3 fingers do it, too, but I find that style uncomfortable after trying it.
The reason I like the 12-position system is that I find it helps with reading and with playing melodic patterns through scales. The shift between the G and B strings is always a problem when you're doing scales broken down into intervals (3rds, 4ths, etc.).
You still run into some difficulties, but it does seem to help when he fingers don't move out of their fret-cover zone.
I try not to spend too much time on this stuff
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Originally Posted by christianm77Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
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Originally Posted by monk
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Of course you don't actually play all the positions in all the keys. You'll find when reading notation some positions work better for reading than others - so readers have their set of favourites - take a look at some reading materials that deal with positional playing.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Practicing scales in good for coordination and speed, as well as vocabulary.
Ed Cherry at Small Last Night (6/3/24)
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