Sheryl Bailey Bebop Question surrounding Maj7 chords and video

[bwashabaugh]

I've been digging into the Sheryl Bailey family of 4 (+1) material that I was granted access to back at the old Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute. I believe it is a shortened version of the 1st Mike's Masterclass Bebop Flow video...

Can someone who has viewed the Mike's class let me know if there is anything covered beyond: (I would surely buy it if there is anything new covered that I don't have access to)
- The overall concept
- 10 or so lines with analysis
- Applying the concept to the standard Just Friends
- Developing a solo

I'd also love to know if Sheryl addresses application over a blues. Also, does she address using the concept over Imaj7 chords? It seems like if you follow the family of 4 you're always addressing major chords as IVmaj7#4 chords.

Thanks,
Ben

[docbop]

If I remember Sheryl's video at old Jimmy Bruno site predates the Mikes Master Class video and materials so her material progressed. I would say hearing Sheryl explain and demo the material is well worth the $29 the class costs. That way you get all the details and not bits and pieces people will post.

FYI: I think all her references were on II-V-I based tunes and not Blues.

[princeplanet]

I've been digging into the Sheryl Bailey family of 4 (+1) material that I was granted access to back at the old Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute. I believe it is a shortened version of the 1st Mike's Masterclass Bebop Flow video...

Can someone who has viewed the Mike's class let me know if there is anything covered beyond: (I would surely buy it if there is anything new covered that I don't have access to)
- The overall concept
- 10 or so lines with analysis
- Applying the concept to the standard Just Friends
- Developing a solo

I'd also love to know if Sheryl addresses application over a blues. Also, does she address using the concept over Imaj7 chords? It seems like if you follow the family of 4 you're always addressing major chords as IVmaj7#4 chords.

Thanks,
Ben

I think you're referring to the concept whereby you mix 4 x 4 note arps with 4, 8 or 12 (even 10 ?) bebop scale notes in the opposite direction. She taught it as each ascending 4 note arp starts on a note of the Dom 7th chord with a corresponding run of bebop scale notes in the other direction which resets to a different arp note to begin the cycle again etc.

Now, if you use the same idea , but substitute arp notes from a maj 7th chord and bebop scale notes from the MAJOR bebop scale, then you can apply the same idea for the MAJ and related chords.

One thing to be careful of if running the 8 note bebop variation along with the 4 note arp is to add:

- extra b5 in bebop scale after maj arp beginning on root, and - extra b9 in bebop scale after dom arp beginning on root

in order to reset to the right arp note.

I think we're talking about the same thing here, but tell me, what was the "+1 " about? Did I miss something?....

[NSJ]

The +1 related to a minor 2-5. So in addition to the F7 bebop scale, add a D7 altered to give you a minor 2-5 (Am7b5-D7 alt)

[princeplanet]

The +1 related to a minor 2-5. So in addition to the F7 bebop scale, add a D7 altered to give you a minor 2-5 (Am7b5-D7 alt)

Thanks NSJ, so let me get this straight - only add the D7alt arp against the relative min 2 -5 ? Which version of D7 alt? #5#9?

The only family of 4 chord (F7) that contains the "F" note already give us the #9 against D7#9... The other chords contain a G note which kinda glides easily against the D7b9 (gives that sus4 sound)...

I use the same family of 4 for the relative minor 2-5, only I'd change the F to and F# in the F7 arp to work better over the D7(b9).
But sometimes I mess it up and forget to make the F7 arp an F#dim arp, and it still kinda works- it's the #9 instead of the maj 3 .....

Am I still missing something?

[NSJ]

No you treat it as its own Dom 7 bebop scale with its own attendant arps on the chord tones, with some mods on certain notes to avoid the ahem avoid tones.

D7 bebop scale
Fm7b5
Am7
CM7

[NSJ]

The crux of her thinking is--the bebop scale can only be used in very strict ways--always on a downbeat, always 8th notes, forwards or backwards, but always starting on a chord tone.

The creativity is found in the arps--rhythmic diversity and intervallic leaps in any way you please .

[princeplanet]

No you treat it as its own Dom 7 bebop scale with its own attendant arps on the chord tones, with some mods on certain notes to avoid the ahem avoid tones.

D7 bebop scale
Fm7b5
Am7
CM7

Do you mean F#m7b5 instead of Fm7b5 ? And can I ask which mods on which notes against which chords?
And why is all this described as "+1" ?

Seems like I need to review this....

[docbop]

Family of 4 plus 1

F Bebop Dominant scale the "Family" are the chord tones of F7 and those are the source of the chords/arps.

F7, Ami7b5, Cmi, EbMa7

since Ami7b5 is typically used as a ii in minor you can add its V. So the Plus 1 is D7 alt.

Those are the chords you can use the F Bebop Dominant Scale over: F7, Ami7b5, Cmi, Eb Ma7 plus D7 alt.

Some of the thing to remember when using the Bebop scale have been mentioned here if really interest people should check out the class.

Bebop Flow: Connecting Harmonic Concepts with the Family of 4 | Lesson | Mike's Master Classes

[princeplanet]

Family of 4 plus 1

F Bebop Dominant scale the "Family" are the chord tones of F7 and those are the source of the chords/arps.

F7, Ami7b5, Cmi, EbMa7

since Ami7b5 is typically used as a ii in minor you can add its V. So the Plus 1 is D7 alt.

Those are the chords you can use the F Bebop Dominant Scale over: F7, Ami7b5, Cmi, Eb Ma7 plus D7 alt.

Some of the thing to remember when using the Bebop scale have been mentioned here if really interest people should check out the class.

Bebop Flow: Connecting Harmonic Concepts with the Family of 4 | Lesson | Mike's Master Classes

OK, but that's saying something a little different than what NSJ was saying (I think...). Perhaps this relates to the idea that you can use the above mentioned family of 4 and it's attendant bebop scale up a min 3rd in order to create sounds over an altered Dominant. For example, if you're playing over (Am7b5)D7alt, then the Family of 4 of/and F7 bebop will work ok (especially if you raise the 3rd to accommodate the alt Dom.)

Hmm, ok, I just wanna extrapolate this for a bit, if I may. Let's take part of the A section from Autumn Leaves. To simplify we'll do it in C maj and leave out the IV chord.

So: Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 -- Bm7b5 - E7b9 - Am7

which is 2-5-1 in maj followed by 2-5-1 in the relative minor. Family of 4 arps are GBDF BDFA DFAC and FACE and the bebop scale is of course G mixo bebop. Now if we play something else for the Cmaj and the Amin chords, we can handle the rest with the Family of 4 and g mixo bebop. Or can we? The problem of course will be the E7b9 as it contains a G#. Now, playing the G nat against the E7b9 chord isn't so bad (#9 right?), but raising it to G# in the right places will spell out the harmony a little better.

The way I do it is to only alter the G note for this part of the sequence :

b d f a g(#) g f e d c b a g(#) b d f e etc

ie, after the top of the Bm7b5 arp and the start of the G7 arp (which becomes G# dim7). The rest of the arp and bebop sequences can remain the same (unaltered), despite the appearance of the G nat here and there. against the E7.

But I'd love to know if this is close to what Sheryl shows, or if it's different? How about you guys? Does anyone change the type of bebop scale against the 2-5 in the relative minor, perhaps a variant of E bebop (with b9 maybe)? This is what I thought NSJ was saying, hence the confusion / interest.

Sorry if I'm boring anyone.....

[Jzzr]

I'm not sure I understand you completely, but running it that way might have chord tones after the G# coming on weak beats.

[NSJ]

I need to re-watch it again and I 'll get back to you. Here's what I remember about using family of 4s to play 2-5s. ( forget about minor 2-5a for now )


Key of C.

G7 bebop scale as connector
Chord tone arps
Bm7b5
Dm7
FM7

Subs for the above

Take your bebop scale and go up a m3 to create a new family of 4

Bb7 bebop scale
Chord tone arps

Dm7b5
Fm7
AbM7

That sub, combined with the aforementioned rules, allow you to create a ton of vocab to work with.

She explains why these Subs work in the video. I have to re watch both of them. Ill get back to you .

[princeplanet]

I'm not sure I understand you completely, but running it that way might have chord tones after the G# coming on weak beats.

Do you mean in this line?

b d f a g(#) g f e d c b a g(#) b d f e

Remember this could be against the Bm7b5 or E7b9. If it were against the E7b9, then you could say the first e note lands on a weak beat, but surrounded by the f (b9) and the d (b7). In other words, an arpeggio fragment! Obviously you can have arp notes (chord tones) falling on weak beats, in this context as well as generally - or is this not what you meant?

[Jzzr]

Yes, that's the line to which I was referring.

When I said chord tones, I meant from the original G7 bebop scale. The way its supposed to work is to have the lines set up so the chord tones of the bebop scale land on strong tones. But now that I look at your example again, it looks like you made it work by eliminating the f# when descending.

Apologies for not being clear. I'm trying to do too many things at once.

[princeplanet]

I need to re-watch it again and I 'll get back to you. Here's what I remember about using family of 4s to play 2-5s. ( forget about minor 2-5a for now )


Key of C.

G7 bebop scale as connector
Chord tone arps
Bm7b5
Dm7
FM7

Subs for the above

Take your bebop scale and go up a m3 to create a new family of 4

Bb7 bebop scale
Chord tone arps

Dm7b5
Fm7
AbM7

That sub, combined with the aforementioned rules, allow you to create a ton of vocab to work with.

She explains why these Subs work in the video. I have to re watch both of them. Ill get back to you .

Cool, interested to know the analysis, particularly regarding the lack of the maj 3rd (Bb in place of B nat against G7)....

[princeplanet]

Yes, that's the line to which I was referring.

When I said chord tones, I meant from the original G7 bebop scale. The way its supposed to work is to have the lines set up so the chord tones of the bebop scale land on strong tones. But now that I look at your example again, it looks like you made it work by eliminating the f# when descending.

Apologies for not being clear. I'm trying to do too many things at once.

Yeah, I go " g# - g - f " in the rel minor 2-5 in place of "g - f# - f " for the maj 2-5. Works for me any how...

[Jzzr]

Nice. I miss that note too, although it sounds great when she does it, even with the missing 3rd.

[docbop]

She explains why these Subs work in the video. I have to re watch both of them. Ill get back to you .

So people know your getting into stuff in the second class Flow Part 2. There she gets into subbing other Families of Four.

[NSJ]

Yah, part 2. going from memory, if you have a G7 and want to make it an altered G7 ( actually an altered sus chord --no M3) use the Bb7 bebop scale and its arps at the chord tones . Thus--G7 making it altered using Bb7 bebop family of 4 over that G7 --no 3rd, really altered sus chord --the Bb7 bebop scale emphasizes #9, b9, b7, b13 (over the altered G7). With regard to the arps--these notes give you the following with regard to the altered G7--
1. Dm7b5---- overG7-5th, b7, b9, sus
2. Fm7 over G7 is also an altered sus sound --b9, sus, b13, b7

3. AbM7--b9, sus, R, b13

Disregard what I was saying about D7 alt with regard to the minor 2-5 cadence. I was confusing it. The point there is that the same Dom 7 bebop scale and its arps can be used to play over both major and minor 2-5s.

Think of the Bb as not a m3 but rather a #9 over a G7 altered.

[princeplanet]

Yah, part 2. going from memory, if you have a G7 and want to make it an altered G7 ( actually an altered sus chord --no M3) use the Bb7 bebop scale and its arps at the chord tones . Thus--G7 making it altered using Bb7 bebop family of 4 over that G7 --no 3rd, really altered sus chord --the Bb7 bebop scale emphasizes #9, b9, b7, b13 (over the altered G7). With regard to the arps--these notes give you the following with regard to the altered G7--
1. Dm7b5---- overG7-5th, b7, b9, sus
2. Fm7 over G7 is also an altered sus sound --b9, sus, b13, b7

3. AbM7--b9, sus, R, b13

Disregard what I was saying about D7 alt with regard to the minor 2-5 cadence. I was confusing it. The point there is that the same Dom 7 bebop scale and its arps can be used to play over both major and minor 2-5s.

Think of the Bb as not a m3 but rather a #9 over a G7 altered.

Gotcha, thanks. Hey, I notice you mention the arps as being the ones based from the 3, 5 and 7 of the Dom chord, but not the Root? Is the 4th of the "Family of 4" as Bailey puts it the Bebop scale? I always thought the arp from the root was used as well, I use it anyhow... As I said earlier , you simply just add the extra b9 in bebop scale after the dom arp beginning on root so that the notes line up s they should.

Seems my concept is a little different also in the way that I apply this idea to the Maj family of chords, so in C maj, CEGB EGBD GBDF BDFA mixed in with the Mj bebop scale (extra #5). To look at it you will be sure it can't work, the last 2 arps are in the Dom family! But try it and you will see it's all abut how they resolve.

The other variation is putting the whole idea in an ascending context, so, back to the Dom family, start with a low arp ascending, then only 4 bebop scale notes descending, then the next arp etc. The whole thing climbs up this way instead of the usual downward momentum. Makes it more interesting to move up as well as down, to me anyway....

So does Bailey get into more detail or variations than all the above? Anyone dig her take on it all?