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anybody else have some spots in tunes they just gotta look out for so they don't get tripped up? maybe we could pot them here and help each other through our hang ups...
i'll start: the B section in "Have you met miss jones." i really gotta think about that one...
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07-08-2007 11:19 AM
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I think maybe key centers are best for this one, no thought process, just move thru the key centers. If the tempo is slow, then I would use arpeggios and scale/interval approach. As always, I would end up using my ear for best results.
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It is during these sorts of places I remind myself that I don't have to play something, but can let space happen some. I think the steady stream of 8th notes can get boring, and uninspiring.
Sometimes, when I pause, I land on something much more clever than just arpeggiating thru the changes. Sometimes I fall on my face though, so it is a trade off I guess.
That doesn't really answer you, but is another option not always considered.
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i actually usually play off the melody here...
i was intending this post to be more of a "share your hangups" more than a "help me please!" post...
that said, thanks for the good advice.
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Well, I meant it as much as how I deal with my own shortcomings as a player as I did as a suggestion.
Hitting on the melody is never a bad idea. I always think I need to come up with something clever. Is there ever anything as clever as the melody?
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jim hall said something to the effect of that he approaches improvising as a challenge to create a melody as interesting as the original...that's pretty cool...
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Trying to revive this old post:
Rhythm changes!
a part |Bb B°7 | C-7 C#°7|
| D-7 G7 | C-7 G7 |
|Bb Bb7/D | Eb-7 E°7|
F7 F7#5| Bb6 |
b part | D7 D7 | G7 G7 | C7 C7
| F7 F7 |
how do you deal with the dim chords, the slash chords and the tempo?
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For the dim7 chords you could treat Bdim7 as G7b9, so a I-VI-ii progression, but if you want to stick to the chords on the page then arpeggios work great for those fast sections.
Bb7 and Bdim7 are only one note different
Bb-D-F-Ab
B-D-F-Ab
Same thing for C7 and C#dim7
C-E-G-Bb
C#-E-G-Bb
So you can just play one idea, alter it by raising the root by one fret and you've managed to run the changes, while maintaining a melodic line to your ideas.
The slash chord can be seen as just Bb7, so you again play the arpeggios and just alter one note from Bbmaj7 to Bb7
Bb-D-F-A
Bb-D-F-Ab
As for the tempo, practice the song really slowly, so that you can get your fingers, ears and brain around all the changes. When you can play creatively and nail the changes at say 60, then go to 65, then 70 etc. This gives you a chance to develop muscle memory and train your hands and brain to nail the changes, which will help you when you get to the faster tempo.
Also, when the tempo gets fast, or at any tempo, don't feel required to blow over a chord just because it's there. Try leaving more space. Hit a few chords per 8 bar phrase if the tempo is fast. Use the tempo to help you create tension and contrast with your silences.
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Something that really trips me up, at a quicker tempo, is the bridge to Stablemates:
Fm7 - - - |Gb9 - - - | G7+ - - - | C7 - - -
B7 - - - | Bb7 - - - | A7 - - - |Ab7 - - -
I can play okay on it, my problem is that it's a hard bop tune, and those changes are a little unusual (At least at that tempo.) So I still like to be articulate of the changes but I can't rely on stock bebop licks. I find bars 2, 3, 4 the hardest.
Another weird one is the turnaround at the end of Isotope (in C) : C7 A7 | Gb7 Eb7 |(C)
That was called at a jam session a few weeks ago and we did it medium up. I had to just leave space for those bars for each of my choruses as I had never played on that change before.
Oh and uh, most monk tunes!
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Gets me every time - probably should just practice it a lot, but does anyone have a neat way to get through it?
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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After playing Giant steps a lot, I don't find it that strange - just common tones and key centers. Originally Posted by Meggy
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I don't play Giant Steps a lot, its on my list of things I need to get done this summer for school though... Originally Posted by JakeAcci
I get hung up on the B section of Very Early all the time, especially this part right at the beginning of the B section:
BMaj7 / Ab7 / DbMaj7 / Bb7 / BMaj7 / G7
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"very early"...that tunes a Beeatch.
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Goodbye Porkpie Hat is my challenging companion these days. Loads of fun though!
David
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i'm faaaaaaaaaaaar away from being able to play through it easily, but one of the trickyest section i have in mind is the last 8 bars of inner urge.
very early also makes me wonder if i ever played guitar in my entire life ...
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Me too...but I haven't started yet, of course. Just been listening to it a lot. :-) Out of curiosity, where are you going to school, and what year are you going into? I'm at CU Boulder and I'm going into my senior year. Originally Posted by sc06yl
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Yes, it's terrible. For anybody who hasn't transcribed some of Joe's playing on the original recording, he treats that section pretty "inside" - a lot of major pentatonics off of the root of the chord. That was helpful for me to hear because at first I figured he would be doing more lydian ideas. Originally Posted by add4
i'm faaaaaaaaaaaar away from being able to play through it easily, but one of the trickyest section i have in mind is the last 8 bars of inner urge.
very early also makes me wonder if i ever played guitar in my entire life ...
It's a tough section but I feel like there are a lot of simple exercises that can prepare one for it.
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Very Early is a bitch of a tune. In fact a lot of Bill Evan's tunes are really challenging, like Gloria's Step.
strangely Giant Steps cycles are not terribly hard, just the tempo people think they need to be called at. This is essentially a mind-fuck. Best way to get through this type of cycling is to start your practice sessions by practicing your major and minor scales not in cycles of 4ths but 3rds instead. Then Coltrane Matrix progressions will feel much more natural.
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Originally Posted by m78w
Wow! Thanks alot! How would you deal on comping the slash chords? so the bass line goes chromaticly like in the Bb7/D Eb E°7 |
Do you play the slash chord or not?
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You can play the slah chords but if there is a bass player you don't have to. For that chord i would play Bbm7b5 which is the 3 to 9 chord of Bb7. It has the 3-5-7-9 in it, just no root, a diatonic sub for the original chord.
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Memories of Tomorrow by Keith Jarret. Bars 20-24.
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"Another weird one is the turnaround at the end of Isotope (in C) : C7 A7 | Gb7 Eb7 |(C)"
Nice sequence....the second bar is a tritone away from the first, and the roots of all four chords form a diminished seventh chord - you could in fact play the same diminished scale over all four of them - I like the sound of that, I must learn that tune!
My own personal 'toughie' is Dizzy Gillespie's Con Alma - good tune though, unlike Giant Steps and Countdown, which always struck me as exercises worth playing but really not great for listening to.
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