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Every time I hear someone like Oscar Peterson, I keep reminding myself I should bunker down one day soon and shed some approach concepts. I already have a few under the fingers, mixing descending bebop and chromatic scales with enclosures around various chord tones as well as practicing the above with ascending arps or arp extensions thrown in to "reset" the descending line.
But, boy, what a rabbit hole! I can access books and web sites with suggested practice routines, but I hate it when I get sucked in for months practicing something that I don't ever end up using. There are no good teachers where I'm from, but I have received great advice from this forum in the past, so I'd like to ask you guys if you find some approach exercises more useful than others? How great a part of your playing relies on approaches/enclosures? Do you have different devices for different chord types? For example, I have a "device" where it's a descending chromatic scale that encloses the 7th and the 3rd against the tonic major chord. Now when I use the exact same device but against the V chord, the enclosed notes become the 3rd and 6th (13th?). Sounds fine, but altering it so the 3rd and 5th are enclosed sounds a little more "in", so I figure I should learn "in" before the several shades of "out"...
Trouble is, on top of the ones I have down, there seems to be dozens of these devices I can think up that may be worth practicing, a coupla years worth easy, with little time to practice anything else, If I'm gonna get it down in all 12 keys!
Anyone out there think I may be over thinking this? Or do some of you work on this stuff as hard as I suspect I should?
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10-01-2012 01:04 PM
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You should check out "Jerry Bergonzi Creating A Jazz Vocabulary" (not sure if it was in volume 1 or 2), but he lays out a number of ways to get enclosures in your ear and fingers.
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Creating a Jazz Vocabulary is the 5th in the Bergonzi series.
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There's quite a lot you could practice, could be extremely exhaustive if you wanted to.
How's this for an idea, keeping things really practical and simple (sorry, it's only an idea, at worst you waste forty seconds reading it...)
Take an Oscar Peterson solo (or a chorus, or a few measures, whatever.) Isolate the parts with enclosures, even if you're just dealing with a half measure run. Pick a limited number of these "licks" from the solo, ideally different ones that use a variety of enclosures rather than, say, always two half steps up to the third of the chord.
Play each of these licks in all 12 keys in every possible five fret range. So you try frets 1-5, doing all keys, then frets 2-6 doing all keys, then frets 3-6 in all keys. Note which fret ranges/keys are easiest and possibly practice those ones more extensively and try to get them up to a max tempo.
My reasoning here is...I guess you COULD practice all possible enclosures to all possible chord tones in all possible turn arounds in all possible keys...yikes...but just taking a few from an artist that you like gives you material that is actually musically relevant to your tastes, and you'll surely be learning and internalizing new approaches to enclosures. I really believe that if the goal is to get something into your improvisation, it's better to internalize a smaller amount of material rather than "skim" a very, very large amount of material.
The fact is that with something like approach notes there isn't really a limit to how good you could get at them...but you do have a limit in terms of how much time you want to devote to them.
It's just an idea. I bet you there are a lot of different practice routines, books, articles, etc, about enclosures, I guess I'm offering this as something I believe could be straight forward and direct...
Also, Metheny uses chromatic approaches in some interesting and more modern ways.
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Originally Posted by bako
Actually I was thinking of the video lessons......
http://jazzheaven.com/how-to-play-ja...cabulary-vol1/
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Djangoles,
Oh well I was talking about his book which presents many variations on the approach note idea.
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A suggestion:
Practice improvising over tunes using 75% to 100% movement in half steps with complete awareness of chord tones/target notes.
Some of what you discover is likely to filter back into your playing.Last edited by bako; 10-01-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Clifford Brown was the real master of this. Learn some of his stuff.
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Sheryl Bailey got me into approach notes they have really enhanced my playing. Once you start getting the sound in your ear you listen to all the great bebop players and you hear them using approach notes all over. Listen to Bach and you hear them, think the classical term is neighbor tones. I also checked out the Bergonzi DVD and he has good info on approach notes. The thing is like anything not over doing it so they don't sound like a exercise. I find practicing using them to add to play a head of a tune, helps learning to use them judiciously.
Well time to get another cup of coffee and back to the shed.
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Word. Originally Posted by Petimar
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Sheryl Bailey, which book or video? Originally Posted by docbop
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Thanks for the responses folks, all being considered. So, to all you guys, generally, are enclosures a big part of your own playing? And if so, how many types of enclosures have you mastered? And how did you practice them?
Just curious....
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I use enclosures quite a bit, but I don't vary it up very much - pretty much limited to enclosures on the 3rd of major & dominant chords - although I do something quite a bit that I don't know if I've heard it done much before - I'll play an enclosure on the 3rd in the midst of an alt dom line or diminished thing. I'm sure it's been done before....now that I think about it....I often do an enclosure on the 9th of a minor arp or the major 7th of a major 7th arp (same thing)...god I'm totally thinking out loud here! I do this so unconsciously. Actually I do approaches on all kinds of stuff without thinking - it's just a sound - a spice.
I'll also do enclosures of certain notes of superimposed pentatonics ( which really equates to the major 3rd again in the instance I'm thinking of...
Sorry for the stream-O-consciousness ramble!
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All approach and enclosures note(s) represent a harmonic approach. You can voice that note(s) with a chord below. Even when you don't want to think that way... ( maybe use a melodic method for source of notes), there is an implied harmony which leads to system of organization... which leads to general guide lines of usage... starting points, or references.
In the last 10 years or so there has been pretty loose usage of approach and enclosures...
Most are different types of sub-V or other sub approaches. Sometimes short Chord Patterns
Even when you use a melodic source as lick, there is usually a harmonic system organizing note patterns.
In the end... it doesn't really matter that much when your playing a melody or soloing. But when I'm accompanying someone... their choice of ornamentation(s), or mine if I'm soloing etc... is just as obvious as someone verbally saying... I want to Blues out the changes, or use constant structure approaches. It's not a bad idea to be aware of what your saying...
Reg
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See what I mean, now I'm thinking I gotta work on 9th enclosures - cos they just sound cool... But wait, would that be an enclosed 9th as part of an arp? as part of the bebop scale? As part of the chromatic scale? How about in the chromatic scheme, an enclosed 9th an well as enclosed 5th? Or maybe enclosing 3, 5 7 , 9? Diatonic enclosure? Diatonic above / chromatic below? vice versa? Double or triple chromatic? above/below/both... POW! (sound of my head exploding)..... Originally Posted by Spirit59
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Sorry Reg, not sure I'm following.... are you extending the approach/enclosure notion out to include an underlying implied harmony? So if approaching by semitone, that semitone sits on top of an imaginary passing chord - and that chord can also be pulled from when choosing melodic options for approach/enclosure?? Do you think this way, even for fast passages? Originally Posted by Reg
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That's how I hear... At faster tempos, I don't really think about it... I hear. Part of being a jazz player is being able to make choices from very little actual information. Although not really much is new, no thinking really needed. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Approach chords can also be approach chord patterns, which give much more harmonic info... which helps pick up harmonic concepts... the harmonic systems used to help guide usage.
Many times changes are just implied... better players, well not better, players with ears that are aware can hear or imply where their pulling from harmonically from just a few notes. Somewhat like the difference between rock players and jazz players using Blue notes.
Reg
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I know we're on a tangent now, but what do you mean by the above? I assume you mean b3, b5, b7 used in isolation? When part of a blues scale, they can be used similar to how used in rock, no? In some cases, like Grant Green, too similar for my liking! (runs and ducks for cover....) .... Originally Posted by Reg
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Lessons she does Skype and the Truefire Sherpa. Originally Posted by princeplanet
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When You use Blue notes, are they an ornamentation or are they a melodic use of harmonic concept?
I'm not worried about the chicken or egg thing... what comes or came first... just how you use.
I hear and use harmonically, the Blue notes are not random, not an ornamentation. Blue notes reflect and imply a harmonic concept used by jazz players. They have a harmonic source(s).
Maybe an analogy could be.... When you take an existing set of changes and a melody in Major and through Modal Interchange change that set of changes and melody to a parallel minor.
Original tune in tonal center of "Cmaj", becomes "Cmin, Dorian, Aeolian or whatever. Your using a harmonic concept... there are very physical changes, different notes and chordal structures that have a history of usage. That simple harmonic control system, ( modal interchange), opens new sources where you can pull from, one source for Blue Notes.
There are simple sub of sub sources for blue notes... take G7 going to Cmaj7, sub Db7 for G7.... now sub G7alt for that Db7. Sub of a Sub, you now have another harmonic method or system for using Blue Notes.
We can keep going, there are many methods of controlling how you use or where you can harmonically pull from as source for Blue Notes.
The point is... there not random. Even if you choose not to be aware of or don't accept practice. Your usage of blue notes has implications.
When we play... everything goes by fast, but when your aware and have trained your ears to hear and your playing to reflect these concepts... it slows down, you can actually make choices.
Think about it and we can move on, maybe play or listen to some examples...
Reg
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I think I'm following you Reg with regards to the use of playing certain approach notes to represent a harmonic approach but with respect to certain enclosures I don't quite get it. For example what does a semitone above and below or in reverse to a chord tone imply to you harmonically?
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Hey Keith... half step enclosures could imply any harmonic concept... constant structure....F D# E... the E could be top note of Amaj7, the 5th. Originally Posted by keith
You tell me what harmonic concept(s) could be used...
Both from sub Bb7
both from constant structure concept... whatever chord. Bbmaj7, Abmaj7 ... Bbmin7, Abmin7 etc...
The tricky part is how you use your concepts together. Your overall concept, how they all work or don't work with each other.
As with most jazz concepts I hear and visualize within Forms... I have these templates that can be dropped over the Form... which organize what harmonic concepts I use and how they interact with each other. Their relationships and guideline of usage. It's somewhat complicated... but when you break it down ... most of the parts or componets are somewhat simple individually.
Reg
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Honestly I find I get better results when I don't try to turn it into a formula, and just use my ears. I know all the theory and chord tones etc...If you over analyze it sometimes you get worse results. I guess there's no harm in figuring out cool little formulaic licks now and then, but the ultimate goal is to choose notes by their sound, not how they fit into some mathematical formula.
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Know what you mean, it can sound contrived, but then you hear, Brownie, Stitt or O. Peteson, and you just know that they practiced this stuff enough to have it down, to the point they control it- not the other way around? (not being controlled by it's over usage). Originally Posted by jazzadellic
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When we play... depending on where, what gig, it's always great to just be able to play what you want or hear. But generally there are more musicians involved etc... if you haven't put the time in teaching your ears and brain how to be able to play, it doesn't always work out that well. Originally Posted by jazzadellic
There's very little actual new material being played, I tend to like being able to determine how those notes will sound and what the relationships are going to be... there is a very thin line between playing what you think or want to hear and what is actually going on.
But no will argue with playing what you hear... do you choose notes by their sound or their relationships?
No right or wrong, just something to think about.
Reg
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You might want to check out Robert Conti's "Ticket to Improv." I started working on vol 1 and the lines are great. It's a great intro to bebop vocabulary and he uses lots of enclosures in his lines. Each successive tune and DVD gets a little harder. Conti's philosophy is play lines and worry about theory later. I've struggled with getting enclosures into my playing and this is the first product I've found that has helped me pretty quickly. I'm only through the first 2 solos (4 per DVD) and the lightbulb has definitely gone off. Good luck!
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