Scales or no scales?

[3rdOrbit]

[quote=MarkRhodes;270634]

I just thought of something. It's pretty funny. There are a bunch of great players who have reached stellar heights in jazz but don't know how to read, and don't know a lick of theory.

They'd be totally lost in this thread /quote]


I think "don't know a lick of theory" goes too far and that "had no formal training" would be better. Remember,theory is a study of how music works. So is listening intently and figuring things out on your instrument and picking things up from other people doing the same thing. If you know a few dozen standards well---and the people you mention knew many more than that; most of them also wrote tunes--you know a lot about how music works. That's what it's all about. If you don't need a book to get it, that 's great; if you do need a book to get it, that's fine too. (Many get a lot on their own and supplement that with informal study of things they can't get a handle on alone. No shame in that.)

Wise words Rhodes. I get you. Sorry if I sounded uppity. We're all passengers on the same train aren't we? Give and take, help each other out.

To Badjazz:

You're full of crap, I never led you astray. You're just bent in that evil direction !!!

[BirdLives!]

There's too many posts to read everything!! I just wanna add my thoughts. I think it really depends on the kind of music you want to play. Someone like Frank Gambale or Allan Holdsworth base so much of their playing on playing scales and modes and so do many other players. If you wanted to play like them it would be inconceivable to realistically do so without also leaning heavily towards a scale based way of thinking. Likewise, if you wanted to play straight-ahead bebop, and I mean purist bebop, well, it really would be better to delve into the music first. Sure, along the way you'll discover many concepts which work, but you'll always be approaching them from a "music roots" based perspective, just as the great masters themselves did. There really are two distinct schools of thought but I think it's more a case of horses for courses. Are scales bad? No, absolutely not, with a good ear and imagination they are tools for good music making. But anything can be used tastefully or poorly. I have found the learning of scales and theory very beneficial to me and have given me a wonderfully thorough understanding of music and my instrument, but I think if anyone were to approach music solely from this standpoint, not having really absorbed the teachings of the masters themselves, they'd be cutting themselves short.

[Jonzo]

I would add that I have looked at books teaching both chord tone scale approaches, and both emphasize that it is ultimately about learning to respond to what you hear.

[Jonzo]

Here is a relevant article:

Berklee Today | Berklee College of Music

[Tony DeCaprio]

I would add that I have looked at books teaching both chord tone scale approaches, and both emphasize that it is ultimately about learning to respond to what you hear.

Any approach (any road taken) will amount to little more than a hill of beans without a trained, or at least an experienced, ear. Without that factor, the usual default mechanism will likely resort to gimmicks and various hand jive. The common practicing trap that many guitar students (etc.) fall into is a certain mind-set that fingers must be moving for hours at a time on the fret-board to constitute practice supposedly leading to "greatness." Another trap is a mind-set that the most recognition comes from bedazzling the audience with technique even at the cost of the music. It's more about ear than hands in the final analysis. In turn, as I have previously mentioned, it is about balance. Balance the ways, but listen along the route. It's really quite direct.

[wizard3739]

Any approach (any road taken) will amount to little more than a hill of beans without a trained, or at least an experienced, ear. Without that factor, the usual default mechanism will likely resort to gimmicks and various hand jive. The common practicing trap that many guitar students (etc.) fall into is a certain mind-set that fingers must be moving for hours at a time on the fret-board to constitute practice supposedly leading to "greatness." Another trap is a mind-set that the most recognition comes from bedazzling the audience with technique even at the cost of the music. It's more about ear than hands in the final analysis. In turn, as I have previously mentioned, it is about balance. Balance the ways, but listen along the route. It's really quite direct.

Good thoughts Tony! +1

wiz