Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15

**Frank67** · 09-08-2013, 06:24 AM

Dear friends,

I got a bit distracted lately but alway had in the back of my mind to come to the book. I have studied a bit of more gypsy oriented material and liked it a lot. I don't have the technique down at all, but keep working on it. One assignment in these studies was to come up with a little solo over the changes of "Claire de Lune", which is a piece that I like a lot. The changes mostly do not follow our common situations and they are also pretty quick (every two beats). So despite the relatively slow tempo of 80 bpm there is a lot going on.

The changes are in a the attached PDF.

Below is my little attempt. The solo is in the second chorus. I did not stick to our eight note policy as I felt too much constrained by this.

Keep up the good work everybody!
Cheers,
Frank

**Liarspoker** · 09-09-2013, 06:05 AM

Sounds good Frank.

I am glad that you are back to the Elliot book.

As most seem to have done on these threads I had also taken a break....but I am back as well.

I have gone back to the start not only to really learn the patterns properly but to use them in actual song progressions as well (Blue Bossa and Tune Up of course and Afternoon in Paris).

The objective as I see it is to have a practical foundation for all the arpeggios so why not apply each situation to actual songs.

Since I had already started the book previously I know its contents so whilst I am only on the arpeggios at the end of chapter 6 I have already used the substitution principles in chapter 7 for the apreggios in chapter 5.

I have also started writing licks as described in chapters 13-15 although I am only playing in 8ths and using the arpeggios from chapters 5 & 7.

All in all I am happy to be back practising with this book again.

I am certain that if I spend more time with the book that I will become a better player.

Oh, and I can't wait to get into the juicy scales in chapter 8 and beyond but I will stick with the arpeggios that I am studying now for another month or more. After Elliott himself says that you can play for a few years using the patterns from chapters 5 & 6 and in the lick writing chapters he says that he would stay with the first 4 patterns for a few years (!!).

Anyhow keep posting your videos, they are very enjoyable.

Happy picking!

**stevebellinger** · 09-13-2013, 08:28 AM

Hi Frank,

Hope you had fun in Italy, sounds good, see you in 16/17

Steve

**Frank67** · 09-13-2013, 03:36 PM

Hi Liarspoker and Steve,

many thanks for your feedback! I hope you also enjoy practicing.

Italy was great ... I just got into a major right-hand-technique crisis which I haven't snapped out of yet and probably won't be for a while. I find it really impressive what the gypsy jazz players manage to do with their right hand (any YouTube video from Joscho Stephan will do) and I also really dig the clarity of the attack and dynamics they get out of it. it is also amazing how much louder you automatically play with reststrokes - little wonder, it was developed in the big band era where guitars and banjos had a hard time being heard. It is, however, so very different from alternate picking with some sort of hand anchor that it can get frustrating. Now I have practiced it so much (it is not in the video) that I am bad at both and a lot slower than before :-( ... and with a regular electric guitar the technique cannot be applied since there is just not enough space between the top and the strings. But on acoustic guitar and decent size jazz-boxes like the ES-175 it works well.

Steve, I have gone a bit the other way - I realized that I don't even know my way around three note major and minor arpeggios. So I spend time doing the connecting game with pure major and minor arpeggios and found it not that easy. I think they sound kind of nice though and perhaps it is even easier to visualize the various color tones of which the 7th is just one (interestingly, in gypsy jazz they seem to never play maj7 chord but use 6 and 9 instead. They will, however, play maj7 arpeggios over maj6/9 chords).

So I guess i will do that for a bit before catching up with the chapters 16/17. I realize that by now I have forgotten almost all of the licks I created :-( ... damn, when will all of this finally sink into the subconscious? It should be like speaking I guess ... once you know it you can just speak without thinking (he he, do you know the people I'm talking about :-)) ... in a technical sense of course.

Anyways, long ramble ... enjoy playing and see you in the forum!
Cheers,
Frank

**Liarspoker** · 09-21-2013, 05:24 AM

Ok, heads up guys (especially Steve, Fep, FrankLearns, Dana et all):

There has been a noticable lack of posts in the last few months as obviously people were side tracked with different things (I am certainly one of those).

I was thinking of having chapter 11 as my consolidation point but since I was writing licks already I will reconsile on chapter 15 (I will practise chapter 12 later once my altered scales are smoother in the connecting game).

Anyhow lets all post at least one video per week of playing through changes of actual songs.

Let's get motivated and let's get practical!

To that extend here is a little contribution of mine (that is very loose on rhythm). It is all I have time for as I need to take the kids to sports (it's Saturday morning which is sideline coffee time for me

).

Looking forward to seeing all of your contributions:

This is just the first eight bars of Satin Doll using the original Major Patterns I and III plus subs. I use the Altered scale over V7. Like I said it's pretty rough.

Enjoy the weekend!

**Frank67** · 09-23-2013, 01:49 AM

Hi Liarspoker,

sounds like a good plan. I was too busy yesterday but hopefully I can manage a short video this week.
I have to revisit quite a bit of the material .... And I also forgot my own licks. That always was the problem ith me and licks. They just don't stick. The process of making them is/was/will be fun. I just haven't found a way to incorporate them in a useful way.

Cheers,
Frank

**Liarspoker** · 09-25-2013, 04:58 PM

At the end of Chapter 15. Elliott recommends picking ten songs for practising your licks.

My songs are:

1) Satin Doll
2) Blue Bossa
3) Tune Up
4) Autumn Leaves
5) Afternoon in Paris
6) Big Nick
7) Black Orpheus
8) Blues for Alice
9) Here's that Rainy Day
10) Long Ago (and Far Away)

It's a nice mix of songs I think.

Anyhow to practise playing over these songs Elliott recommends writing four licks for the first four common situations.

I guess that he means two licks in Pattern I Major and two licks in Pattern II Major.

Similarly two licks in Pattern II Minor and two licks in Pattern IV Minor.

I did a bit of Satin Doll last time but the notes weren't memorable licks as such (according to the principles in the book) therefore I will work on this song a little more.

A question: My wife says my playing (when applying the Elliott principles) sounds too much like arpeggios. Strictly going by the book we shouldn't throw in chromatic notes, or at least notes a half step up or down from the target note, but it would surely colour our playing. Should we incorporate these into our licks?

**stevebellinger** · 09-25-2013, 09:48 PM

Hi Liarspoker,

Good list, I,m onto it.

Steve

**fep** · 09-25-2013, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Liarspoker

At the end of Chapter 15. Elliott recommends picking ten songs for practicing your licks.

A question: My wife says my playing (when applying the Elliott principles) sounds too much like arpeggios. Strictly going by the book we shouldn't throw in chromatic notes, or at least notes a half step up or down from the target note, but it would surely color our playing. Should we incorporate these into our licks?

Hi Liarspoker,

Yes I agree, when playing the Elliott arpeggio exercises they sound too much like arpeggio exercises. Even still you are learning new pathways on your guitar, ear and mind. This shouldn't replace other things you know, rather it should add to it.

I think a sensible approach is to do the arpeggio exercises to learn the new pathways. Write licks that are based on the arpeggios but add to taste chromatic passing tones, enclosures, blues notes etc. When practicing over tunes, perhaps play arpeggios for a couple choruses, then intersperse your licks with the arpeggios for a couple courses, and then play all your "stuff" for a couple of choruses.

**stevebellinger** · 10-01-2013, 04:52 AM

Hi all,
My attempt at 1 chorus of satin doll trying to use just 8th notes with a few subs and alt scale
Forgotten how hard just 8th note playing is!!! more shedding!

**Liarspoker** · 10-01-2013, 10:15 AM

Nice one Steve!

In return I offer the first 16 of Here's That Rainy Day.

It did not go as planned but I did get my pre-worked licks in.

This is the first take as the camera battery ran out during take number two (which is just as well as mrs Liarspoker has taken the kids away for a little while whilst I am supposed to be cleaning the house and doing a few odd jobs).

This is actually my first recording with my new Ibanez AFJ-85 and I actually like the sound. The amp is a Vox AC15 which sounded far superior to any of the Roland Cube's that I have read so much about.

**Frank67** · 10-02-2013, 07:09 AM

Awesome Steve! You can make anything sound good - very enjoyable to listen.

Also nice Job Liarspoker! It is nicely coming together.

I did this one yesterday before hopping on a plane. It is only the camera mic and sounds like s**t. But just document anything, here are some arpeggios over "All of me". Over the A-part I only play pure major and minor triads (pretty hard!), over the B part the four note arpeggios that we have practiced here so much.

Enjoy practicing and music!

Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 10-02-2013, 09:06 AM

well played Frank, and looking rather dapper for the flight!

**stevebellinger** · 11-21-2013, 09:05 PM

Hi All,

Hope all are well and practicing hard. I'm back online at last in India!!!(sun, beach and no rain for 6 months)
So lets all push on.

Steve

**fep** · 11-21-2013, 09:12 PM

Right on Steve.

**Frank67** · 11-22-2013, 01:28 AM

Hey Steve,

thanks for waking me up ... Last time I had half a video recorded when life took over again. Lately have been practicing a lot for some rock gigs but hopefully soon can go back to try some jazz.

Enjoy the sun in India!

Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 11-22-2013, 08:52 PM

Hi Fep

Glad to here from you

**stevebellinger** · 12-16-2013, 11:14 AM

Hi all

Still woodshedding with Arps and scales

**Frank67** · 12-17-2013, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by stevebellinger

Hi all

Still woodshedding with Arps and scales

Hi Steve,

wow! It sounds completely professional! great job, very impressive, very nice, very musical, very laid back, nicely melodic - I really enjoyed listening to you (… actually my wife was commenting on it too)

Here - not so much progress - too much work and in the practice time that I had, I have mostly worked on technique related exercises lately; finally want to get more "unchained". I am still thinking to go back to the Elliot book - but I also have forgotten a lot already :-(

Congratulations again!
Cheers,
Frank

**jckoto3** · 12-17-2013, 08:21 PM

Sounds great Steve! That woodshedding is paying off in a big way, eh?

**stevebellinger** · 12-17-2013, 09:12 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for the encouraging comments, like Frank I have forgotten a lot of the book, so I am going to write some licks as suggested in chapter 15 page 51 and work from there. Lets see if we can push on in 2014 make the commitment!

Keep shedding and Happy Holidays

Steve

**Frank67** · 01-05-2014, 05:05 AM

Dear friends,

it's been a while ... I have finally started to get back to the jazz material and hope to follow up along the lines of the book.

Here is an attempt at "round midnight" that I posted in the gear section (beautiful new Heritage guitar). Listening to it now I think I probably should have rehearsed a bit more - but I have been using material from the book (altered scale, arpeggios, diminished substittions, chromatics). I find the chord sequence quite challenging since the chords change frequently and never really resolve to the tonic ... Anyways, for what it is, here is the link to the video

keep up the good work everybody and happy 2014!
Cheers,
Frank

**Frank67** · 02-05-2014, 05:20 AM

Dear friends,

anybody still here?

Here is a take on "there will never be another you" with some pre-manufactured licks. I figure going on like that for a few more tunes is probably more helpful than rushing through the rest of the material. In that spirit I think I would next revisit the tunes that I had recorded so far and perhaps do some new takes on them and maybe add a few more like "Stella by starlight", "Satin doll", "My funny valentine", "Angel eyes" etc.