Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15

**stevebellinger** · 02-10-2013, 03:05 AM

Hi Frank,

Nice job, and some smooth playing, I didn't notice the timing issues. One question, when you play the octaves what are

the fingerings, are you fretting 3 strings? sounds cool. I have been writing some Maj. 251 for tune up so hopefully get

some posted next week.

Had a look at the improvisation course by Gary Burton on Corsea, looks interesting, starts April. I signed up for it as it

was free, but may just be a Berkley teaser! but as it was free, what the hell. I like the way Gary burton explains things.

Glad Israel was o.k.

keep up the great work

Steve

**Frank67** · 02-10-2013, 04:04 AM

Hi Steve,

thanks for the nice comments! I have looked at the wave form in Garageband and some of the triplet runs are not quite right ... and I forever have the tendency to play slightly ahead of the beat, which is much worse of course than to be behind the beat. Anyways, I am ok with the recording and it really was fun to do!

The way I have gotten used to play the octaves is to hit three strings but to damp the middle one rather than fretting the octave and just hit those two strings. I feel it sounds more smooth this way. I had heard a fellow from the Berkley crowd talk about this in some video on the net. It just feels most natural to me this way. He also made a point that Wes was fingering with finger 1 and 3 on the lower four string octaves and with finger 1 and 4 on the higher two - I don't manage to do this well. I just loose coordination really quick. Using fingers 1 and 4 for any strong combination works best for me (... not that I could ever dream of imitating Wes in the first place :-)).

The Berkley school sounds fun! I figure for me it makes most sense to finish this book and then see what comes up next. I've jumped around teaching material too much in the past, so at least for once I plan to stay loyal to the Elliot book until the end :-) (... that said I will spend a holiday week in Italy this summer on a Gypsy swing workshop which should be great fun).

Looking really forward to your Tune Up! That tempo is real killer - my honest admiration that you can pull that off!

Keep up the good work!
All the best,
Frank

**AlsoRan** · 02-10-2013, 09:54 AM

[QUOTE=FrankLearns;287303]Dear Friends,

I am currently travelling through Israel and had a little time this morning. I couldn't resist trying "Tune Up" at 220 bpm (didn't even know that the metronome goes that far up :-)). Unfortunately I did not even have a pick with me so I tried fingerstyle. Sure enough I lost it more or less right away. So here are a few bars of my little pathetic attempt for you to laugh at and then enjoy Steve's certainly nice and groovy version. There is nothing coordinated about the improvisation (no licks, no nothing).

Keep up the good practice everybody,
Cheers,
Frank

[/QUOTE

I see you have developed a two-finger technique similar to Joe Pass, wherein you don't use the pick. Maybe using it for this song would serve you well. In pretty much all of the videos I have seen of Joe Pass, he switches to a pick on very fast runs. although he is still pretty quick with that two-finger technique as well. Something to think about.

Keep it up, Frank and it seem you will soon be having endless hours of fun improvising. And then, you can work on sticking in chord fragments like Kenny Burrell and Martijn Van Iterson.

**Frank67** · 02-10-2013, 12:17 PM

Hi AlsoRan,

many thanks! ... very flattering that there is a comparison to Joe at any level :-) I actually wasn't aware of this. I am always very impressed when I see his right hand technique on videos - but he seems to use all fingers on the right hand (except the pinky), doesn't he?

I am going back and forth on this. A pick never really feels very natural to me. I went through dozens of different picks, some are better than others for me but it never reaches the point where I am completely at ease with it (hand position, pick angle, wrist vs forearm movement or even Benson technique ... nothing really sticks). It may be a lack of trying systematically enough.

The two finger thing is what feels most natural to me when I play without pick, and I also like the sound better than what I get with a pick. The problem is to get a consistent attack, say, when playing steady sixteen'th notes, but lately it improved as I have been practicing a lot without pick. To just use the thumb also doesn't work as I am too slow and I can't figure out how to play upstrokes with the thumb. The classical technique with fingernails and playing single note runs with index and middle finger looks really good when watching people but I have a hard time with it - I'm both, slow and inaccurate with it. The two finger technique, I think I have first seen with Mark Knopfler and it feels good to me (not that could ever be anywhere near the guy's chops or musicality of course). I also feel that I have more control of the attack and the tone with finger playing and it easier to switch from comping to single notes or octaves. Anyways, I am not sure where it takes me but it is fun to toy around.

For the improvising - I guess I have recently occasionally seen a bit of light in playing over jazz chord progressions but it is far from the stage where it really gets spontaneous and relaxed. So far it is all pretty rehearsed. I'm waiting for the magic moment where the fretboard lits up with the chord tones of the present chord and the tones that will fit over the next two bars :-) So far it is more like "ahem, this is, aeh, Eb-7 and it is probably the II of Db-major, so I can play, aeh, ahh yes, those notes and they are located on the fretboard, aeh, here and here ... and I should resolve to ... let's see ... etc etc.". By the time I'm done thinking a band would be at least 32 bars ahead of me :-) I truly admire everybody who can really pull it off on the fly. Maybe some day ... but this study group is a lot of fun and I also feel that I'm getting a lot out of it.

Oh, and thanks for the hint with the chord fragments - that of course is another step in the future - but it sounds great in the hands of the people who can do it.

Thanks for the feedback everybody and enjoy practicing!
Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 02-11-2013, 10:30 PM

Hi Frank,

had a good look at the vid and it seems when you play a G octave you fret the G on the 2nd string the G on the 4th and

the B the major 3rd on the 6th is that correct.

Steve

**Frank67** · 02-12-2013, 04:12 AM

Hi Steve,

that happens subconciously ... but it only looks as if the B on the 6th string is fretted. The middle and ring fingers are just laying loosely on the bass strings to dampen them and the finger base is helping to damp the 1st string. In the example of that G the bass strings are not hit (at least they are not supposed to :-)). The dampened strings, if they are hit just help to produce that fat sounding ooomph in the octaves that I like so much. To me it sounds much better with the thumb than with a pick. It really has nothing to do with trying to sound like Wes.

**stevebellinger** · 02-12-2013, 08:32 AM

Hi Frank,

Cheers for the explanation, I here guitarists playing octaves, like yourself, and I never seem to get that oomph sound in

my playing, will need more practice, i thought i could hear another note! but seems it's more technique.

Tune Up is a real challenge at 220, but i keep plugging away.

steve

**Frank67** · 02-12-2013, 09:04 AM

Thanks Steve,

I am looking really forward to hearing your Tune Up version!
I am debating what to do next, may try some swing.

**AlsoRan** · 02-12-2013, 10:46 AM

[QUOTE=FrankLearns;294862]Hi AlsoRan,

many thanks! ... very flattering that there is a comparison to Joe at any level :-) I actually wasn't aware of this. I am always very impressed when I see his right hand technique on videos - but he seems to use all fingers on the right hand (except the pinky), doesn't he?

I think you are right about this. I read somewhere that he was quoted as preferring the two finger for a single string run, and I guess used all fingers when he jumped strings. I will have to go back and look at one of my videos more closely. You could be right.

it is far from the stage where it really gets spontaneous and relaxed. So far it is all pretty rehearsed. I'm waiting for the magic moment where the fretboard lits up with the chord tones of the present chord and the tones that will fit over the next two bars :-) So far it is more like "ahem, this is, aeh, Eb-7 and it is probably the II of Db-major, so I can play, aeh, ahh yes, those notes and they are located on the fretboard, aeh, here and here ... and I should resolve to ... let's see ... etc etc.". By the time I'm done thinking a band would be at least 32 bars ahead of me :-) I truly admire everybody who can really pull it off on the fly. Maybe some day ... but this study group is a lot of fun and I also feel that I'm getting a lot out of it.

Thanks for sharing this. I never know when a person is truly playing ideas from their mind on the spot, versus playing a rehearsed, or semi-rehearsed solo. My understanding is that many solos are rehearsed in some way but it is nice to have that fabled ability to be able to pull it from your mind depedning on your mood, in response to the chord played.

Keep up the good work.

**stevebellinger** · 02-18-2013, 10:38 AM

Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15-maj-251-1-jpg

Hi All,

A couple of maj 251 licks, sit 1 at 220 bpm trying to get up to speed for Tune Up. Will write a few more for the

D and Bb 251, and then try and join the dots!!!

keep up the great work

Steve

**Frank67** · 02-18-2013, 11:06 AM

Hi Steve,

impressive as always and very precise, congrats! --- are the oversized glasses mandatory to play at that speed :-)

Great work! I look forward to hear this in context! Have you written the licks down?

Keep up the great work!
Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 02-18-2013, 09:31 PM

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the encouragement. still crashing a bit on the tune Up changes, but starting to get it together.

will try and get some better notation software, to write down the licks, logic is a bit of a pain.

The glasses! were giving to me by my wife, she said "that the hours you spend trying to learn how to read

music, and getting nowhere fast, you must need glasses"!!!

Have you chosen your next tune yet?

Steve

**stevebellinger** · 02-22-2013, 03:08 AM

Hi Frank,

Put the licks into Notation using Muse-score, nice bit of free software.

not sure if they are a bit to large for this forum, or that I have

put them up in the best way?

Steve

**Frank67** · 02-24-2013, 11:26 AM

Hi Steve,

many thanks for writing out your licks! I think it displays nicely on the site, not too big. (how have you done that? Did you upload it first elsewhere or just insert from your computer?). I also use MuseScore and find it quite ok to work with.

Ha ha, if reading music is related to sunglasses than I would need giant ones as I couldn't be any slower (essentially still counting using my fingers :-)).

I'll try and play through your licks a bit later today. They sound really cool!

I still have not decided for sure what I want to do next, but was thinking about "There will never be another you", a bit uptempo (but not 220 bpm). Then perhaps "Solar" - these are songs that sit in my ear much better than "Tune Up". I really do feel that doing songs in an somewhat organized and planned fashion helps a lot.

Enjoy practicing!

**fep** · 02-24-2013, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Dear Friends,

I am currently travelling through Israel and had a little time this morning. I couldn't resist trying "Tune Up" at 220 bpm (didn't even know that the metronome goes that far up :-)). Unfortunately I did not even have a pick with me so I tried fingerstyle. Sure enough I lost it more or less right away. So here are a few bars of my little pathetic attempt for you to laugh at and then enjoy Steve's certainly nice and groovy version. There is nothing coordinated about the improvisation (no licks, no nothing).

Keep up the good practice everybody,
Cheers,
Frank

Hi Frank,

That was fun and exciting, pushing the limits. I can hear if you can get comfortable at that tempo, your going to sound real good.

**stevebellinger** · 02-24-2013, 12:05 PM

Hi frank,

Just uploaded from my computer via musescore. I also think, like you, that trying to incorporate our licks into song

situations, makes me eventually look at the changes, rather than just trying to play by ear! maybe we will get that

"Jazz sound" soon

Keep practicing

Steve

**Frank67** · 02-24-2013, 01:05 PM

Hi Frank (fep),

thanks so much for the encouragement! That morning the mood just took me. 220 is still way too fast for me to play in a coordinated fashion, but I start enjoying more and more to play with my fingers rather than a pick. Some things are easier, some things are harder but I feel that overall I have a more coordinated and direct interaction with the instrument - and switching between single notes, octaves, chords and comping is a whole lot easier this way.

Thanks for the explanations Steve! To me you sound great and you have a very nice ear for music (and impeccable timing)! Analyzing changes and note options is definitely also something that has improved a lot for me due to the study group exercises. It still needs to come much faster than it does, but I feel it is heading in the right direction.

And yes - let's work all together on sounding more "jazzy". I really have a lot of fun around here!

**Frank67** · 03-25-2013, 01:29 AM

Dear friends,

it has been a bit quiet here. I was also a bit distracted by varios things, and also the rockband I'm playing with. I had to work a bit to not embarass myself too much during some gigs. It is OT here (sorry!), but there is a video on Youtube (I'm obviously the guy with the sloppy timing ... My colleague is really good! The sound quality is not good - the singer normally comes across much better. It was a cheap camera filmed directly from the audience)

I hope to get back to Jazz soon! I would love to hear everybody's progress!

keep up the good work!
cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 03-25-2013, 09:35 PM

Hi All,

Rock on Frank! I'm still working on the book, Arps, melodic minor, Tune up!!! Also transcribing, music reading, never

enough hours in the day. Also trying to put a set together. Will hope to get a vid posted this week, of tune up, not

playing it well at the moment but will stick something up anyway.

Keep working hard

Steve

**Frank67** · 03-26-2013, 02:25 AM

Sounds great Steve!
I'm looking forward to hearing it!

Keep up the good work everybody.
Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 04-22-2013, 04:51 AM

Hi all,

Back in Vietnam, and great free wifi again. Lost me free wifi in India and the complex was charging silly money, so no wifi till

now. Thought I would post this little diti I transcribed from young Chris Standrings pwyh course, which, bye the way is very

good.

I think it sort of ties in with what we are doing here as it has a couple of nice 251 changes. I have included a copy of the cords

On the changes, the first 4 measures should read "D Maj sounds"

Still not quite happy with my version of tune up but I'll keep plugging away at it

Keep up the good work

Steve

Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15-fig-47-jpg

**Frank67** · 04-22-2013, 10:53 AM

Hey teve,

that sounds really nice and very smooth! It was another book that I wanted to check out at the time and it is great to know that it is good.

But I promised myself to be faithful to the Elliot book for now (but I'm very distracted unfortunately by other things). I've lately been working a bit on "There will never be another you" and have a lot of fun with improvising over it. Just can't get my head around to play something organized it seems :-)

Anyways - your clip sounded great (as always!)
Keep up the great work!
All the best,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 06-07-2013, 01:29 AM

Hi All,

Now the 5 G.B course is over time to get back to mr Elliot. Also Joined the Jazz improv group so will be quite busy over the coming months!!

Steve

**Frank67** · 06-07-2013, 01:39 AM

Hi Steve,

nice to hear from you! I'm also eternally sidetracked by other things but I will be happy to finish the Elliot material. Still haven't gotten around to do something organized on my next tune here.

Cheers,
Frank