Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 8, 9 & 10

[Vanzant]

I am a bit confused with the Worksheets Page (pg. 34 of Ch. 10)

For the first pattern it shows the II mi, V7, and Ima7 and the diatonic substitutions for IImi 7 (IVma7) and I ma7 (either IIImi7 or VImi7)...I understand this....

But, for the V7 it shows the Altered scale up 1/2 step. I sorta understand this, but....

Lets say we are in the key of D...

The V7 chord is A7, so therefore the altered scale a 1/2 step up would be the A# melodic minor right?

The shape they show with the root on the sixth string does not match any of the melodic minor patterns on page 27...Sure it is the same shape as pattern 3, but the root is in a different place...

What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance!

[unit9]

I think I see where your confusion is, the pattern on page 34 matches up with pattern IV on page 27. The reason the roots are in a different place is because the pattern on page 27 is melodic minor, but on page 34 it is the altered scale. Same note collection but different root. This is the problem with this melodic minor scale up a half step approach, It can cause confusion sometimes. Its a bit like C Major scale and D dorian, although they contain the same notes the root note is different. Hope this helps as I am no teacher or expert, but I have suffered the same confusion myself in the past.

[Vanzant]

I think I see where your confusion is, the pattern on page 34 matches up with pattern IV on page 27. The reason the roots are in a different place is because the pattern on page 27 is melodic minor, but on page 34 it is the altered scale. Same note collection but different root. This is the problem with this melodic minor scale up a half step approach, It can cause confusion sometimes. Its a bit like C Major scale and D dorian, although they contain the same notes the root note is different. Hope this helps as I am no teacher or expert, but I have suffered the same confusion myself in the past.

I am not sure I understand how the first altered scale pattern on page 34 matches pattern IV on page 27. To me it looks like it matches pattern III on page 27, but the root is in a different place on the sixth string.

It seems like if you use the up a 1/2 step approach (still in the key of D, so the V7 chord A7 will use an A# melodic minor), then you could just use any of the Melodic Minor patterns on page 27 and just make sure your root is on A#.

But, when you look at the Worksheet, this is not the case...Why?

Very confused

[Dana]

The shape they show with the root on the sixth string does not match any of the melodic minor patterns on page 27...Sure it is the same shape as pattern 3, but the root is in a different place...

Pattern III on page 27 is in relation to the Bb Melodic Minor Scale. So in this case Bb is the 1.

Bb (1) C (2) Db (b3) Eb (4) F (5) G (6) A (7) = Bb Melodic Minor

The Altered Scale pattern on page 34 within the Pattern I Major Scale section is in relation to A7 Altered. So in this case A is 1. Bb is b9. It is the same notes & pattern (shape) on the guitar, but the note relationships are different.

Bb (b9) C (#9) Db/C# (3) Eb (b5) F (#5) G (b7) A (1) = A Altered Scale

This is the problem with this melodic minor scale up a half step approach, It can cause confusion sometimes. Its a bit like C Major scale and D dorian, although they contain the same notes the root note is different.

I agree with unit9. I like to think of it as it's own scale, rather than 'it's melodic minor from this note or that note.'

Hope that helps.

[Vanzant]

Pattern III on page 27 is in relation to the Bb Melodic Minor Scale. So in this case Bb is the 1.

Bb (1) C (2) Db (b3) Eb (4) F (5) G (6) A (7) = Bb Melodic Minor

The Altered Scale pattern on page 34 within the Pattern I Major Scale section is in relation to A7 Altered. So in this case A is 1. Bb is b9. It is the same notes & pattern (shape) on the guitar, but the note relationships are different.

Bb (b9) C (#9) Db/C# (3) Eb (b5) F (#5) G (b7) A (1) = A Altered Scale



I agree with unit9. I like to think of it as it's own scale, rather than 'it's melodic minor from this note or that note.'

Hope that helps.

Okay, now it is making sense...

It is the same pattern as pattern as pattern III on pg. 27, but because we are talking about a V chord (in this case A7), the root has to be on A; but because the altered scale shares the same notes as the Bb melodic minor we can also think of it as the Bb melodic minor, which would push the root up a half step (like on page 27).

I was watching this video and this guy says that thinking of the V7 altered scale as a melodic minor gets you using/emphasizing the colorful "interesting" notes.

Thanks for all of your help Unit 9 and Dana!!

I'm sure I will have more questions as I move forward.... till then

[unit9]

[QUOTE=Vanzant;432015]Okay, now it is making sense...

It is the same pattern as pattern as pattern III on pg. 27, but because we are talking about a V chord (in this case A7), the root has to be on A; but because the altered scale shares the same notes as the Bb melodic minor we can also think of it as the Bb melodic minor, which would push the root up a half step (like on page 27).

I was watching this video and this guy says that thinking of the V7 altered scale as a melodic minor gets you using/emphasizing the colorful "interesting" notes.

Thanks for all of your help Unit 9 and Dana!!

I'm sure I will have more questions as I move forward.... till then[/QUOTE Yes what he says is true, but you might be getting a bit ahead of yourself here, later on in the book it does get onto harmonizing the melodic minor scale and then using the arpeggios from those chords over the altered dominants, but at this stage of the book he just wants you to play the notes in order of the scale , I think he wants you to get the pitch collection burned in before moving on.