transcription method

[lizentrail]

Hello

Lately I have been very much into developing my hearing and hopefully also developing a perfect pitch ear. So the journey into this world has given me a question:

If you are getting kind of good with transcribing music with your ears and no other things, like your guitar or piano... Should you also do the same for things you want to play on guitar, that you first transcribe them by ear and only then play it on your instrument?

Or do you think it is actually better the hang on with the same method by listening and trying to play it instantly already on your instrument?

I myself am slowly tending towards ''first by ear, then instrument'' method, even tough its harder, it seems to have more benefits.

Tough I am a little sceptical aswell, as it seems that by doing that you do not do alot good to your instrument, as you basically just sheet read already transcribed material.

So what are your opinions? And what do you think will bring bigger advancments and benefits to my guitar playing?

[cosmic gumbo]

You don't need perfect pitch to be a musician, and for most jazz musicians, transcribing means learning a piece or solo note for note on your instrument by ear.

[FatJeff]

My own personal method is to sing along with a solo until I can do it (almost) perfectly, just with my voice. Then I sit down and figure out how to play it on the guitar. Finally, I put the notes on the paper.

Works for me.

[Nuff Said]

If you are getting kind of good with transcribing music with your ears and no other things, like your guitar or piano... Should you also do the same for things you want to play on guitar, that you first transcribe them by ear and only then play it on your instrument?

So what are your opinions? And what do you think will bring bigger advancements and benefits to my guitar playing?

Well done, if I'm reading your post correctly, you seem to be able to transcribe from recordings directly on to sheet music.

I would say that the next step is to transcribe what's on the recording directly on to your instrument. This takes time to find the notes, I started by transcribing easy song melodies and then "Miles Davis'" solos from "Kind of Blue".

Nuff

[alwaysharp]

I used to get really frustrated transcribing but I would always pick a crazy Brecker solo or Chris potter thing. Once I realized I could transcribe stuff that wasn't a million notes at a million miles an hour I can't get enough now. Lol. My method is similar to FatJeff, when I'm transcribing I'm singing the phrase then when that feels comfortable I pick it out on guitar. The thing about singing a phrase first is that it makes finding it on the guitar so much easier. But yeah, I say - sing the phrases, find something you like and don't make it harder on yourself than it has to be (by picking super hard solos etc).

[onetruevibe]

I'm with Jeff and Always. Man, if you can listen and then throw the notes down on paper without an instrument...whoa. Kudos to you!

[cosmic gumbo]

I know plenty of guys who memorize and never write it down. I know there is value in putting it down on paper, but I get more as a player by memorizing. I know transcribers who are shitty players. I guess it depends on what your goals are.

[FatJeff]

I know plenty of guys who memorize and never write it down. I know there is value in putting it down on paper, but I get more as a player by memorizing. I know transcribers who are shitty players. I guess it depends on what your goals are.

Writing down the notes is certainly not required. Really, getting the notes under your fingers and into your playing is the important thing. But I find that when I do write things down, it helps me understand the solo in a different light. It's not always obvious to me that a player is using a particular idea until I see it on paper.

[JakeAcci]

You guys are so right. This is one of those things I've realized a little too late. I used to always do transcriptions (sometimes several choruses) right to paper before playing them and I feel like my playing would have improved much more if I worked more on memorizing the transcription instead of writing it down.

The writing is helping for analysis like Jeff said, but for ears and actual playing vocabulary, I think starting with a focus on hearing-singing-playing is the most logical.

Unfortunately I've made similar observations as cosmic_gumbo...I know some people that have done a ton of transcription but it's clear haven't really done the work to integrate the vocabulary.

Personally, from a player perspective (as opposed to a teacher, student, or author) I think it's better to work with one small phrase and applying it to many different scenarios rather than figure out multiple choruses but either just play the solo as is or not play it at all. Different people have different opinions about this issue, that's mine...

[kris]

You don't need perfect pitch to be a musician, and for most jazz musicians, transcribing means learning a piece or solo note for note on your instrument by ear.

+1

[jazzadellic]

I transcribe, with my guitar in hand. I think it's important not only to figure out the notes & rhythms being played, but also where & how on the fretboard it is being played. You can only really do that by having your guitar with you. The benefit to this is by the time I'm done writing it down, I also know how to play it, by memory usually. Sometimes the hardest part of a transcription is just figuring out the fingering used for optimal ease and speed. I do this while I transcribe. It means I probably take longer to transcribe it (because I am trying out different fingerings / strings etc.) but like I said, at the end I can also play it by memory, using the right fingering etc...I guess whatever works for you. While I am good at identifying intervals and such by ear, I find my "fingers" are better at it than my brain....I can hear a line and almost instantly play it without having to think about it or identify intervals and rhythms abstractly. So I just feel it is much more efficient for me to have guitar in hand when transcribing.

[kris]

I transcribe, with my guitar in hand. I think it's important not only to figure out the notes & rhythms being played, but also where & how on the fretboard it is being played. You can only really do that by having your guitar with you. The benefit to this is by the time I'm done writing it down, I also know how to play it, by memory usually. Sometimes the hardest part of a transcription is just figuring out the fingering used for optimal ease and speed. I do this while I transcribe. It means I probably take longer to transcribe it (because I am trying out different fingerings / strings etc.) but like I said, at the end I can also play it by memory, using the right fingering etc...I guess whatever works for you. While I am good at identifying intervals and such by ear, I find my "fingers" are better at it than my brain....I can hear a line and almost instantly play it without having to think about it or identify intervals and rhythms abstractly. So I just feel it is much more efficient for me to have guitar in hand when transcribing.

+1...I use similar metode.

[Rich Cochrane]

hopefully also developing a perfect pitch ear

Hi lizentrail -- are you saying you've been following a method for developing perfect pitch? As others have said it seems to have limited usefulness as a skill, but I'm curious to know whether there's a pedagogy for it.

[lizentrail]

yes there is a certain way of studies in developing perfect pitch...

And actually it does not really have a limited useffulness as a skill. I am folowing the path of - you can practise your fingers as much as you want, but those licks will never be your own if cant sing them and know what they are. Your fingers play what is in your mind. By practicing just licks you just get them into your relfexes, but you do not really know them, they dont really come from somewhere, their just a reaction to the tought - I should play this lick now. True improvisation is not just licks, its a melody which come out from yourself, and how are you supposed to think up a melody on spot if you cant even have it properly in your head. Thats why, atleast for me - ear training is essential. Ofcourse alot of great players haven had any ear training at all whatsoever, but im pretty sure that they know what they are playing, even if they cant name the notes, but they know what they are playing... and this perfect pitch thing is kind of an helper in this kind of a way.

I am not completely into the tought that It is a must... Mostly when I play on stage I just forget about everything, about every lick ive practised, every scale and just try to go into this meditative state of music, where everything just comes out by itself... ( read Kenny Werners book on this, iff you are interested )

But for something great to come out even ffrom this euphoric state of mind when playing, you have to spend these hours in the practise room, until its just there. And perfect pitch - for me is one of the things I also practise.

If you have perfect pitch you can much more easily practise even without your guitar, by just analysing recordings on the bus for example. You just here, aaa here he plays that scale over that chord, now thats interesting, I should write it down... ( ofcourse dont forget to sometimes listen to music not analysing it, just enjoying it! Again recommending to read Kenny Werners book!)

But thats just my opinion...

Do as much as you can in the practise, including perfect pitch, and then just realease yourself when your on stage!!!

[Franklin52]

yes there is a certain way of studies in developing perfect pitch...

And actually it does not really have a limited useffulness as a skill. I am folowing the path of - you can practise your fingers as much as you want, but those licks will never be your own if cant sing them and know what they are. Your fingers play what is in your mind. By practicing just licks you just get them into your relfexes, but you do not really know them, they dont really come from somewhere, their just a reaction to the tought - I should play this lick now. True improvisation is not just licks, its a melody which come out from yourself, and how are you supposed to think up a melody on spot if you cant even have it properly in your head. Thats why, atleast for me - ear training is essential. Ofcourse alot of great players haven had any ear training at all whatsoever, but im pretty sure that they know what they are playing, even if they cant name the notes, but they know what they are playing... and this perfect pitch thing is kind of an helper in this kind of a way.

I am not completely into the tought that It is a must... Mostly when I play on stage I just forget about everything, about every lick ive practised, every scale and just try to go into this meditative state of music, where everything just comes out by itself... ( read Kenny Werners book on this, iff you are interested )

But for something great to come out even ffrom this euphoric state of mind when playing, you have to spend these hours in the practise room, until its just there. And perfect pitch - for me is one of the things I also practise.

If you have perfect pitch you can much more easily practise even without your guitar, by just analysing recordings on the bus for example. You just here, aaa here he plays that scale over that chord, now thats interesting, I should write it down... ( ofcourse dont forget to sometimes listen to music not analysing it, just enjoying it! Again recommending to read Kenny Werners book!)

But thats just my opinion...

Do as much as you can in the practise, including perfect pitch, and then just realease yourself when your on stage!!!

This sounds more like relative pitch than perfect pitch IMHO....

[lizentrail]

Well Now I guess I have tied myself in a web... sorry for any misunderstandings... and if I sound stupid...

Well they are a little bit related, and I have to learn relative pitch as well in school... so I might have slipped some ideas in the post I guess, but anyhow its still pretty tied to perfect pitch, and it is easier to do relative pitch things if you have perfect pitch.

[Rich Cochrane]

This sounds more like relative pitch than perfect pitch IMHO....

Yes, I was also working from a more restricted definition of "perfect pitch" as the ability to state the pitch class of an isolated sound without having a reference pitch given to you.

I've only ever met one person who had it -- he could literally hear a truck drive past and say "That was Eb, but a bit sharp" and if you went to the piano, there it was.

Like I say, a good party trick but not necessarily all that useful. The music rags in the '80s used to advertise an expensive correspondence course for learning it but I always suspected it was a bit of a scam.

BTW I'm also a big fan of Kenny Werner's approach; if I just kind of skate past the New Age stuff I find his methods really productive.

Sorry to wander off-topic, I appreciate you were asking about transcription methods. I rarely transcribe anything so will keep my trap shut on that score

[matt.guitarteacher]

The music rags in the '80s used to advertise an expensive correspondence course for learning it but I always suspected it was a bit of a scam.

Yep. Scam is the right word for it.

[theot71]

I'd like to know how you guys approach transcribing a tune.

I sit with the guitar and hit notes on the 6th and 5th strings trying to find notes that blend with the music. Then I try to sound chords from those notes to see if I get lucky.

Maybe I need to be a better player to begin with, transcribing is hard for me. Rock and blues I can fluke but jazz is frustrating.

Is there a book or reference on the net that has easy jazz music aimed at teaching transcription?

[smokinguit]

Is there a book or reference on the net that has easy jazz music aimed at teaching transcription?

Not that I know of, but it doesn't matter anyway. What you need to do is train your ears to hear the diffence between all 12 pitches, intervals (distance between two pitches or notes), and then chord qualities (maj, min, dim, etc.,). You need to spend time in the shed listening and trying to sing along to the recordings. Singing will help you internalize everything much faster. That's how I did it.

I spend a lot of time doing ear training outside the practice room. For example, I would sing along to a Lester young's solo while showering, driving my car, or jogging in the park with my ipod. I do the same thing with intervals and chords. I use "play by ear" app. I got from Iwasdoingalright.com. Ear training is one of those things that you keep doing no matter how good you get at it. There is always room to get even better. At least that's the way it seems at this stage of my development

My teacher had me do this before allowing me to actually transcribe on the instrument. His reason was that he wanted me to hear things before actually playing it. It's not easy but it is very rewarding once you accomplished your goal

[2bornot2bop]

Not that I know of, but it doesn't matter anyway. What you need to do is train your ears to hear the diffence between all 12 pitches, intervals (distance between two pitches or notes), and then chord qualities (maj, min, dim, etc.,). You need to spend time in the shed listening and trying to sing along to the recordings. Singing will help you internalize everything much faster. That's how I did it.

I spend a lot of time doing ear training outside the practice room. For example, I would sing along to a Lester young's solo while showering, driving my car, or jogging in the park with my ipod. I do the same thing with intervals and chords. I use software apps. I got from Iwasdoingalright.com. Ear training is one of those things that you keep doing no matter how good you get at it. There is always room to get even better. At least that's the way it seems at this stage of my development

My teacher had me do this before allowing me to actually transcribe on the instrument. His reason was that he wanted me to hear things before actually playing it. It's not easy but it is very rewarding once you accomplished your goal.

Say it again. That's how it was done in the old days...and with an LP playing back a different pitch than your instrument. Count yourself blessed to live in a day and age with all the advantages that exist for creating transcriptions today. The real gift of transcription/ear training is interval recognition.

There are no shortcuts to recognizing that interval in your head and then spontaneously playing it on your instrument. If it was so simple a lot more people would stick with jazz. Baby steps...life's rule, not mine.