Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Pages 2 through 5

[fep]

My overall self critique of my playing on these. My time sounds okay, other than that; boring.

Progression 1: ||: Am7 | Dm7 | G7 | Am7 :||

The assignment was to play an Am7 pentatonic scale at the 5th fret over the progression. A key center approach.

And to listen to just the guitar and see that you can't hear the chord progression in your line using that approach.

I made a backing track with BIAB, I didn't want to look for the books CD. Here is me playing Am pentatonic over the progression

Page 4 Ex..mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Same thing but guitar only, and yes you can't hear the progression in my lines.

Page 4 Ex. just guitar.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

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Progression 2 ||: Am7 | Dm7 | G7 | Am7 | Fm7 | Bb7 |Ebmaj7 | Bm7b5 E7 :||

Same assignment except you shift from Am Pentatonic to Eb Major Pentatonic for mm. 5-7. Found the CD, this one is done with the books backing track.

Page 5 Progression 2.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

______________________________

For anyone interested, here is the BIAB backing track I made for Progression 1

Chapter 1 Progression 1_Render Compressed.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[wizard3739]

Great job Frank, The recordings, BIAB backing will be very helpful. I did almost the same thing you did with BIAB. I spent time going through the rest of the book today and it is all very familiar to me. It is like being back in the improv classes at G.I.T. Gonna be a lot of fun!

wiz

[Frank67]

Got my copy of the book today - from skimming through it i really like it - very logical and systematic and the author obviously knows very well about all the wrong things that people (like me!) do while self educating themselves.

I will try to catch up with you guys but time might be to limited to strictly follow all of it. But it is a great idea to have such a study group! Very well done!

[FatJeff]

I have a limited amount of time to post for the next two weeks, since I'm working and I'm still in school until May 5. But I wanted to "get on the board" and let it be known that I'm not bailing out on this group.

I'm really excited about getting into the meat of this book. I have good confidence that this method will be beneficial to my playing, even though I can now play over most changes (as long as the pace isn't too fast!). The author advocates using a key-center and chord-tone approach. Currently, most of my improvisation uses the key-center approach, and I play my solos by ear, after having sufficiently absorbed a given song through lots of listening and some harmonic analysis. I definitely need work on chord-tone soloing. This would explain why I sound better on standards than I do on more modern tunes by the likes of John Coltrane, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea.

The author advocates increasing both vocabulary and repertoire. No complaint from me. I've kept a list of songs that I'm familiar with (i.e. that I've put some amount of effort into) over the past 3 years. That list currently sits at about 180 tunes. These are songs that I could get into shape without too much trouble. Out of that list, I think I could play probably about 40 dead cold (no lead sheet, just tell me the key, count it off and I can play it). One of my main goals over the next year or two ... now that I'm going to have more free time due to being out of school ... is to get all 180 of those tunes into my "dead cold" list. In addition, I definitely need to increase my vocabulary. Embarrassing as it may seem, for example, I've used the same 2 m7b5 licks and the same 4 or 5 ii-V-I licks without variation for the last 3 years. I need to get out of that rut!

I also appreciate that the author highlights the importance of preplanning/mapping out/shaping one's solos. Now there's an aspect of my improv that needs a lot of work - solo shaping. I rarely have a plan going into a solo, and it definitely shows! Listening back to some of my past recordings, I can label myself as a noodler. ugh, not good.

I don't have any comments on Chapt 28 (Budget Practice Time), other than (a) I do it, and (b) I intend to keep doing it. it's refreshing to go back and review my practice logs from a year ago and see where I've made progress.

as far as the Conclusion chapter goes, I'll just quote Mr. Elliot: "You have now reached the base of the mountain." Reminds me of when you first get your black belt - now is when the real learning begins!

[gingerjazz]

Fep,i could not help but chuckle to myself listening to your recordings.Your playing shows such maturity and told a story with motivic development.Good musicianship is so ingrained in you that it is obviously hard for you to play without showing those quality's in your playing.Great tracks though,i am of to give this a go now,its some years since i did this exercise,i will let you know how it goes.Peace.

[fep]

Great job Frank, The recordings, BIAB backing will be very helpful. I did almost the same thing you did with BIAB. I spent time going through the rest of the book today and it is all very familiar to me. It is like being back in the improv classes at G.I.T. Gonna be a lot of fun!

wiz

Fep,i could not help but chuckle to myself listening to your recordings.Your playing shows such maturity and told a story with motivic development.Good musicianship is so ingrained in you that it is obviously hard for you to play without showing those quality's in your playing.Great tracks though,i am of to give this a go now,its some years since i did this exercise,i will let you know how it goes.Peace.

Thanks guys.

I love your enthusiasm, the both of you.

[fep]

I own this book and have done some work with it and continue to use some of the concepts although I haven't mastered all the material by any means. I'm not sure I want to go back and work through it from the start, so I won't opt in to the study group, but I will be following the thread with a lot of interest.

I'd make a couple of observations:

1. It's a useful approach in particular to incorporating melodic minor concepts into your playing in a practical way. Priceless information for the novice jazzer (as I am myself).

2. One difficulty you will have is deciding at what point you move on to the next stage. You could probably read and assimilate most of the information in this book in an evening's concentrated reading. Getting the concepts under your fingers and in your ears is a different matter. I've ended up spending months on the "long" major and minor 2-5-1s because I want to feel I've assimilated the material properly before moving on to the next thing. I'm not saying this approach is better, just that there's a difficult judgement call to be made about when to move forward.

I'm interested in Joe's own comments. I admit that like some of his students I've tended to neglect writing licks in favour of using the connecting game to develop my sense of a pitch-pool that will work in a given harmonic situation. I'm pretty happy with the results but I do feel that my phrasing could be sharper. Maybe I need to incorporate more pre-composed licks.

Apologies for the slightly off-topic ramblings but I thought some people might be interested in the thoughts of someone who has worked with the book.

Interesting post. I'm glad you are joining in.

I'm thinking that we can move through the book fairly quickly. But after that, reviewing is where we can spend a lot of time on individual concepts. All the threads that we start will remain open so I'm hoping people will keep posting to the earlier threads, especially this one as so much is covered in the suggested reading of the last chapters.

[fep]

Got my copy of the book today - from skimming through it i really like it - very logical and systematic and the author obviously knows very well about all the wrong things that people (like me!) do while self educating themselves.

I will try to catch up with you guys but time might be to limited to strictly follow all of it. But it is a great idea to have such a study group! Very well done!

Since we are just getting started you don't really have any catching up to do.

Speaking of a logical and systematic approach, that has me reflecting on my own practice.

I spend my practice time on:

1) Review or things I already know pretty well and
2) New material or things I don’t know very well

The truth is, most of my time is spent on review of things I already know pretty well. And a lot of that time could hardly be considered practicing at all.

To balance my time better I am going to set a goal of getting organized and sticking to ‘To-Do lists’.

I think one of the benefits of working through a method book like this is it keeps you progressing through new and varied material. I'm looking to create new pathways for both my fingers and my brain.

[fep]

I have a limited amount of time to post for the next two weeks, since I'm working and I'm still in school until May 5. But I wanted to "get on the board" and let it be known that I'm not bailing out on this group.

I'm really excited about getting into the meat of this book. I have good confidence that this method will be beneficial to my playing, even though I can now play over most changes (as long as the pace isn't too fast!). The author advocates using a key-center and chord-tone approach. Currently, most of my improvisation uses the key-center approach, and I play my solos by ear, after having sufficiently absorbed a given song through lots of listening and some harmonic analysis. I definitely need work on chord-tone soloing. This would explain why I sound better on standards than I do on more modern tunes by the likes of John Coltrane, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea.

May 5th is not to far down the road. Looking forward to you having more time for the study group. Since you've been through about half the book already you shouldn't have any problem 'taking it easy' on this book in the meantime.

The author advocates increasing both vocabulary and repertoire. No complaint from me. I've kept a list of songs that I'm familiar with (i.e. that I've put some amount of effort into) over the past 3 years. That list currently sits at about 180 tunes. These are songs that I could get into shape without too much trouble. Out of that list, I think I could play probably about 40 dead cold (no lead sheet, just tell me the key, count it off and I can play it). One of my main goals over the next year or two ... now that I'm going to have more free time due to being out of school ... is to get all 180 of those tunes into my "dead cold" list. In addition, I definitely need to increase my vocabulary. Embarrassing as it may seem, for example, I've used the same 2 m7b5 licks and the same 4 or 5 ii-V-I licks without variation for the last 3 years. I need to get out of that rut!

I also appreciate that the author highlights the importance of preplanning/mapping out/shaping one's solos. Now there's an aspect of my improv that needs a lot of work - solo shaping. I rarely have a plan going into a solo, and it definitely shows! Listening back to some of my past recordings, I can label myself as a noodler. ugh, not good.

I don't have any comments on Chapt 28 (Budget Practice Time), other than (a) I do it, and (b) I intend to keep doing it. it's refreshing to go back and review my practice logs from a year ago and see where I've made progress.

as far as the Conclusion chapter goes, I'll just quote Mr. Elliot: "You have now reached the base of the mountain." Reminds me of when you first get your black belt - now is when the real learning begins!

Jeff, that is awesome. That was a great read, and you seem to have your path well thought out. It looks like this book will really benefit you.

180 tunes and 40 of them down cold! You are doing what I keep telling myself I should be doing.

[rmsmarr]

Just got my book and have given a quick once over. I've been playing guitar for quiet a while and have played and studied different genres. I consider my self a jazz guitarist of sorts, but I know I have a lot of holes in my playing. I read the first assignment and have started the major arp studies using pattern one.

I'm excited about the book and group and think we can never get to much study in the fundamentals. Looking forward.

[FatJeff]

I learned them as “CAGED” and I believe they are also the same patterns that Jimmy Bruno teaches.

Looking back at some notes I had scribbled into my book from a couple of years ago, I see that we should include some information about the Bruno 'shapes' or (fingerings), and how they correspond to the CAGED shapes and the shapes in the Elliot book.

In actuality, CAGED is not quite the same as the Bruno fingerings. Bruno's fingerings are numbered so that the lowest note on the 6th string that is included in that fingering corresponds to that scale degree. So in other words, Bruno's shape 3 has the 3rd as the lowest note on the 6th string; shape 5 has the 5th as the lowest note; etc.

So, Elliot's Pattern I = Bruno's Shape 3; Pattern II = Shape 5; Pattern 3 = Shape 6; Pattern IV = Shape 7; Pattern V = Shape 2.

Hope this is a helpful correction for those players who are steeped in the Bruno system (as I was at the time).

[gingerjazz]

My own opinion is that the concepts used in this book can easily be applied to any fingering system that someone is using.As i have mentioned before i now apply the techniques in this book to the leavit fingerings and feel i am having great success doing so.In fact of the two fingerings he uses throughout the book one is already identical and the other is the same but for one note which could be classed as an alternative fingering and often is in some books,he leaves the rest for the reader to work on after puttting down the book.I have expanded on many of the ideas in this book but was not sure if i should mention any of these things in this thread as it might be seen as off topic,so i will leave that for now.Peace.

[Frank67]

Ok, so I spent time with those progressions and forcefully limited myself to one position of the pentatonic scale. It does work, however, the urge to play an F over the Dm7 or an B over G7 must be resisted to be consistent with the excersize. It makes it so much harder to outline the progression. But I guess this is what we are supposed to get out of this excersize.

One mistake I always made (make) was to rush through study material and then it just doesn't sink in and never becomes pat of "vocabulary" (honestly speaking i still find timing (let alone groove) to be the hardest aspect of improvising. It just doesn't come easy to me at all and what is any knowledge of licks or scales or arps or whatever worth if one doesn't know how to play it in time. Hence i would appreciate aspects of this during the study. I do use a metronome and also Band in a Box quite a bit, a lopper occasionally). The study group moving at a reasonable and not too fast pace is a great idea.

[FatJeff]

One mistake I always made (make) was to rush through study material and then it just doesn't sink in and never becomes pat of "vocabulary" (honestly speaking i still find timing (let alone groove) to be the hardest aspect of improvising. It just doesn't come easy to me at all and what is any knowledge of licks or scales or arps or whatever worth if one doesn't know how to play it in time. Hence i would appreciate aspects of this during the study. I do use a metronome and also Band in a Box quite a bit, a lopper occasionally). The study group moving at a reasonable and not too fast pace is a great idea.

I find that I need to spend several weeks (6 or more) with a new concept, practicing it daily, before it really starts to sink in.

[NSJ]

Is this the book in question? If so I'll order it and try to join This group...

Amazon.com: An Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing BK/CD (Introduction to Book & CD) (9780634009709): Joe Elliott: Books

[fep]

Is this the book in question? If so I'll order it and try to join This group...

Amazon.com: An Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing BK/CD (Introduction to Book & CD) (9780634009709): Joe Elliott: Books

Yep, that's the book and that's a good price.

[NSJ]

Yep, that's the book and that's a good price.

Ordered. Will arrive on May 10-21.

[MGranada]

Hi

Here´s a midi backing track for progression 2 page 5.

http://www.box.com/s/4fa7e07673773cb2b0d3

This is good for ppl that don´t have the book, like me, but want to participate in this workgroup.

Cheers
Miguel

[fep]

Hi All,

I started a new thread for chapters 2 & 3 and it is here:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...ers-2-3-a.html

I wanted to start it so we can get our guitars out and start working out those arpeggios.

So Ch. 2 & 3 discussions will be there.

In the meantime this thread is still alive and kicking.

[fep]

The author asked us to read chapter 26 as part of the Introduction. In that chapter he talked about building a repertoire and the process of learning songs.

He also wanted us to pick 10 songs to learn in the next 6 months.

I have a list of about 150 songs that I want to be my repertoire. I picked songs from that list. I wanted to pick tunes that are often played in jazz combos, are not too difficult, and that have ii V I progressions.

Here is my list with columns that represent the stages of learning a song as described by Joe Elliott.

[jazzbow]

Aha, I have this book and I will endeavour to join in with you guys, nice one

[Frank67]

So, feps 10 became 11 songs :-) I'll also list 11.

In alphabetical order:

1) Affirmation
2) All of me
3) All the things you are
4) Angel eyes
5) Autumn Leaves
6) Here's that rainy day.
7) Manha de Carneval
8) Misty
9) Round midnight
10) 4 on 6
11) There will never be another you

This covers some diverse ground from straight ahead jazz standards, smooth jazz, bluesy jazz, latin and gypsy - all things I like a lot. Some of them are fairly easy, some of them I have little clue how to maneuver myself through the changes (e.g. Round Midnight) and some of them i find technically challenging.

[yelserpdog]

Here are my 11

I've gone for tunes I know to play a little and some I only know to listen to and some I dream of being able to play well.

Take the A train
All the things you are
Cherokee
Caravan
Autumn leaves
Fly me to the moon
Have you met miss Jones
Blue Bossa
Oleo
There will never be another you
Misty

[onetruevibe]

Hello all,

Just ordered my book - looks like I won't get my hands on it until late May.

I'll follow along here and post when it makes sense. Like others in the group, I struggle with connecting my lines.

My 10 songs will be:
1. Autumn Leaves
2. I Can't Give You Anything but Love
3. Blue Bossa
4. All of Me
5. All the Things
6. Misty
7. Orange Colored Sky
8. Funny Valentine
9. Satin Doll
10. Straight, No Chaser

Brian

[onetruevibe]

So, Elliot's Pattern I = Bruno's Shape 3; Pattern II = Shape 5; Pattern 3 = Shape 6; Pattern IV = Shape 7; Pattern V = Shape 2.

Hope this is a helpful correction for those players who are steeped in the Bruno system (as I was at the time).

Yep - those are the shapes I learned way-back. I didn't realize they were Bruno's, though.

Question: Elliot's Major patterns are the same as his Minor patterns, right?

That is:

• Major Pattern I = Minor Pattern II
• Major Pattern II = Minor Pattern III
• And so on around the horn....

To clear - I'm only talking about the patterns here. I know there is more happening here than just patterns. But by looking at it this way, can we say there are only five patterns to learn, and not ten?

Thanks!