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  1. #31
    Does anybody have some clips or examples of very proficient, creative professional players playing with the P4 tuning? (ideally players that are not posting in this thread )
    Oh, hi - if interested, I post a lot of playing/practice clips at www.instagram.com/JakeEstner

  2. #32


    Here's a video of Stanley Jordan, who uses P4 to facilitate his two handed tapping approach on guitar.

  3. #33
    How about somebody who plays one guitar at a time?

    (Yes, I know SJ plays one guitar at times too, but maybe let's just leave two-handed-tappers out, for discussion's sake.)
    Oh, hi - if interested, I post a lot of playing/practice clips at www.instagram.com/JakeEstner

  4. #34
    If you're looking for famous players, you won't find any other than Jordan. However, earlier in this thread I mentioned other non-famous 4ths players who haven't participated in this discussion.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci View Post
    Does anybody have some clips or examples of very proficient, creative professional players playing with the P4 tuning? (ideally players that are not posting in this thread )
    Alex Hutching


  6. #36
    Nuff Said Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci View Post
    Does anybody have some clips or examples of very proficient, creative professional players playing with the P4 tuning? (ideally players that are not posting in this thread )
    Matt Raines is an exceptional P4 Jazz player.

    Nuff

    Just listen to this:

    Maybe a bit too much reverb?
    Last edited by Nuff Said; 03-08-2012 at 06:49 AM. Reason: Maybe a bit too much reverb?

  7. #37
    Hey that Hutchings guy is a good fusion/shredder...very much in that Guthrie Govan style.
    Oh, hi - if interested, I post a lot of playing/practice clips at www.instagram.com/JakeEstner

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci View Post
    Hey that Hutchings guy is a good fusion/shredder...very much in that Guthrie Govan style.
    He is good, I like how he can play very soft quiet sometimes (I think he uses 8 gauge strings). I think Guthry is standard tuning (yay!)

  9. #39

    another convert

    I have switched over to 4ths tuning. I struggled with it for months, because I also play classical and pop, and wanted to keep standard tuning for them, and then wanted to have all my playing in one tuning.

    But the more I got into jazz (I only started in December), the more apparent it was that 4ths or "F" tuning was the way to go. The deciding factor was getting the Real Book and seeing the frequency of chord changes in a lot of tunes!

    The beauty of 4ths is that anything you learn on one part of the guitar reinforces the rest of the guitar. Also I'm finding that when I transcribe, patterns of arpeggios and triads really jump out much more. So I'm staying with F tuning for jazz and E tuning for everything else.

    Going back to E for classical was a bit of a concern, but I'm mostly just using tabs for that, I do all my note-reading in jazz, using the 4ths note map. And the 4ths note map is a better one anyway, you always have the same notes next to each other.

  10. #40

    Free P4 and M3 Online Tutorials

    I re-started playing the guitar about two years ago after a 30-year layoff. I experimented with alternative tunings, and I have become a big fan of regular tunings (in which chord shapes remain the same as you move your fingers both along and across the fretboard).

    IMHO, the two best regular tunings are P4 and M3. While I was learning these, I documented what I learned in two tutorials and have made them freely available online at www.keith.bromley.name . They describe the pros and cons of both P4 and M3 tunings and show fingerings for a lot of simple chords. Feel free to give me feedback on anything that I have missed.

  11. #41
    A jazz-guitarist added Dr. Bromley's tutorials as external resources for the Wikipedia articles on all perfect-fourths and major-thirds tunings:



    Also, Keith's tutorials each contain a (seemingly) comprehensive list of links to on-line resources.
    Last edited by Kiefer.Wolfowitz; 11-18-2013 at 05:55 AM. Reason: URLs for Wikipedia articles linking to Keith Bromley's tutorials on M3 and P4 tunings
    Kiefer Wolfowitz

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Bromley View Post
    I re-started playing the guitar about two years ago after a 30-year layoff. I experimented with alternative tunings, and I have become a big fan of regular tunings (in which chord shapes remain the same as you move your fingers both along and across the fretboard).

    IMHO, the two best regular tunings are P4 and M3. While I was learning these, I documented what I learned in two tutorials and have made them freely available online at www.keith.bromley.name . They describe the pros and cons of both P4 and M3 tunings and show fingerings for a lot of simple chords. Feel free to give me feedback on anything that I have missed.
    Well done a very good piece of work. I'm a P4 player, but I wouldn't recommend a guitarist to change from standard tuning to P4 if they already know the fretboard.

    Guy

  13. #43
    I tried P4 tuning recently and it was like a revelation to me. I didn't quite realize before, how much I was struggling due to the assemetry... but I've realized it's actually my biggest complaint about guitar.

    Suddenly, I can much better play the lines I hear in my head. I feel more connected to the guitar. I feel refreshed and motivated again.

    Yes there will be things I have to re-learn, but I think it will be worth it.

  14. #44
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    Maaaan, I am so late to this party!

    Gonna give a little bump here ...any other P4 players lurking/still lurking around here?

    I switched over a year ago and probably won't go back anytime soon, if at all.

    Being primarily a bass player, this demystified the guitar for me pretty quickly.

  15. #45
    What's the problem with the traditional tuning? Anybody tried ear training before looking for alternative in tuning?

  16. #46
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    LOL...that's some hot jive there.

    The answer is symmetry, it's a very practical tuning...check out the rest of the thread, there are actually a lot of thoughts on the subject here.

    I also played for 20+ years and studied classical guitar before switching.

    I am missing how the spatial layout of the fretboard and ear training are so intertwined. ...notes sound the same regardless of tuning.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
    LOL...that's some hot jive there.

    The answer is symmetry, it's a very practical tuning...check out the rest of the thread, there are actually a lot of thoughts on the subject here.

    I also played for 20+ years and studied classical guitar before switching.

    I am missing how the spatial layout of the fretboard and ear training are so intertwined. ...notes sound the same regardless of tuning.
    If I started with P4 from the very beginning I would question the trad tuning the same way. But I started, like most people, with the standard, and I never felt it's lacking anything. I'm, as a musician, lacking plenty, but never would think the different tuning is the answer. I watched some videos, and saw that perfect 4th gives you easier shapes on some scales, but at the same time gives you harder chord shapes on some.

    The point is, it doesn't solve anything technical.

    It might give you alternative sounds, the chords would sound different, etc. So sonic- wise yes! totally!

    But I see it's mostly talking from 'making the fretboard easier' point of view here- well, yeah, sure.

    Have you play any other string instruments? Violin? Banjo? How's P5 working out?

  18. #48
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    i play double bass and bass guitar so the p4 thing really worked out for me. ...for what i do personally, it really works well. i improvise a lot and don't really need to use big voicings. i also feel like single note lines flow more smoothly for me...it might be psychosomatic.

    though i started with standard tuning, i also spent a lot of time playing solo acoustic guitar using DADGAD, open D, and lots of other tunings so I am kinda used to moving things around; it's helped me to maintain an elastic mindset as far as the fretboard.

    As far as how chords sound...a G7 will always be GBDF ...I could use that same shape and get a different sound if I change tunings, but I am not really playing a G7, just using a finger shape. ...it's probably just semantics/boils down to how you approach things at this point.

    however, I will add, if i was going to go into a really traditional project, i think i would go back to standard.

  19. #49
    The P4 community is growing because, contrary to the naysayers' claims, it does solve technical problems, it does makes the fretboard map much easier, and it's a very chord friendly tuning too. Finally, it makes perfect sense. Don't let the nabobs of negativity dissuade you.

    While this forum is great for all things jazz and guitar, it is not a great forum for P4 discussions. I recommend joining a P4 specific group for friendly discourse on the subject. The one I know of is a facebook group, "Guitar Tuning in Fourths": Guitar Tuning in 4ths Public Group | Facebook There you will find a mix of styles and abilities with many resources to help you with your journey.

    Good luck




  20. #50
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    In response to the OP - Ant Law


  21. #51
    joaopaz Guest
    not sure if anyone mentioned Tom Quayle already... he's another awesome guitarist using P4.

  22. #52
    nice thread!

    I switched a few years ago and it is a leap of faith that pays off more and more over time. Not only are there more 'shapes to learn' in standard, but you are always practicing one shape to the exclusion of the others ... you are playing a zero-sum game. The degree of unification that you can achieve between aural conception and motor output is really staggering ... I'll post some chord-melodies in the near future that will (hopefully lol) dispel the notion that P4 is not commensurate with solo jazz guitar.

    Before the switch, I'd describe my chord vocabulary as a hodge-podge of Galbraith voicing, things various instructors taught me, Joe Pass voicing, shell, 3 7, 3 7 + 1 ext, 3 7 + 2 ext, ... but in a word 'hodge-podge.' Making the switch is like a fire in an old growth forest, clearing the way for something fresh and revivified. It's as if you are going on a camping trip and you get to decide what to bring. What do you NEED? What do you really want/like? Although one could make a fearless inventory of their resources without leaving standard tuning, I think coupling such an activity with 'straightening out' the fretboard can be very powerful indeed.

    Moreover, I believe that there are symmetries / connections that are ONLY visible / obvious on a symmetrically tuned guitar. Even piano, which is no doubt a very powerful tool for visualizing and understanding music, fails to have the property that visual/tactile/aural patterns are 100% invariant on transposition. My hope in the coming decades is to put my money where my mouth is and become a renowned player and teacher (despite not being overtly talented), building on the insights that have accompanied making the switch.

  23. #53
    Quote:
    "I'll post some chord-melodies in the near future that will (hopefully lol) dispel the notion that P4 is not commensurate with solo jazz guitar."

    Looking forward to it. I spent 2 years in 4ths before switching back to standard tuning. One influence was the relative inadequacy of chord voicings in 4ths.

    Some much used chords in standard: Diminished: xx5656
    Minor 9th: x5755

    Minor 7th: 5x555 (or reach up and hit top-pitch string too etc.) -- are much harder in 4ths.

    Major 7th: 5x665 is much twistier in 4ths, less ergonomic.

    Still it is a regular temptation because the math is so much better in 4ths.

  24. #54

  25. #55
    Okay, if you're looking for feedback -- it was pretty good, but I didn't hear the lushness of a really full chord melody.

    (I have posted examples of my playing, but not solo)

  26. #56
    It seems you're feeling attacked. I don't think JazzinNy has that intent.

    FWIW, I thought your version was good too. I liked the dyad approach at the beginning, the chord work and slight reharms for the 2nd section. My only criticism is that it was too loose with the time for my taste.

    Regardless, you're a good player who is clearly dispelling with the myth that chord work isn't possible with P4.

    Keep it up and post more

  27. #57
    Thanks, I appreciate that. Apologies for getting all cranky

  28. #58

    God about p4 tuning


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