A Love Supreme Opening Notes

[JonnyPac]

Hey guys,

I was just goofing around with the opening notes of Trane's ALS. The notes are interesting- a "subset" is the perfect word for them. He played the P5 R M2 and P5 (8va) ascending over an E6/9 type harmony.

This in an interesting division of the octave...

Root Tritone Octave is a common symmetrical division - and a bit jagged and dissonant. Now, take this other motif: It is similar but plays the notes on either side of the Tritone. R P4 P5 Octave. It is all perfects. You can think of it as a set of a P4 and another P4 a P5 away. It sounds very modern, strong, and interesting, IMHO; the notes seem to tonicize each other. This subset fits just about every scale in multiple ways- a universal lick of awesomeness that is really easy and simple.

Here's one on many ways to play the notes. Move it, transpose it, use as parts of other chords and scales, alter some intervals- knock yourself out!




------------------7---------------------------
-------------7--------------------------------
---------9------------------------------------
-----9----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------



Please experiment and post your results here. Also, I'm sure some of you are deeper into Trane and those Thesauruses of melodic subsets he used. I'm all ears...

[JonnyPac]

More easy ways to move it around...



---------------------------------------------
------------------12---------------------------
--------9---11----------------------------------
-----9----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

-------------------7--------------------------
---------5---7---------------------------------
----4----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------



Really, this is a cool little lick. Milk it!!

[JonnyPac]

I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this one! Anybody mess with it yet? Kinda quiet thread...

[jmstritt]

Just saw this thread. Interesting stuff.

Probably deserves a bump.

I'm going to check this out when I get home.

[mr. beaumont]

I always thought of it as kind of a "fanfare" type lick...cool stuff.

[brwnhornet59]

I am digging to Jonny!!!

[JonnyPac]

Man, it fits everything! It's a great way to pull of P4 intervals in your solos inside or outside. Also a great "scoop up" lick into other motifs. Glad you guys are checking it out too.

[Socrates]

Sounds good. Though I wonder if Coltrane has got Rogers and Hammerstein to thank for this. If you start with the root it sounds suspiciously like the first 8 bars of "My Favourite Things".



E B B F# E E B(8va) E E F# E x2


I've always been a big fan of this tune, especially the way the harmony shifts down a maj 3rd from E min to C maj in the 5 th bar, while the same refrain is repeated over it. In fact much of the rest of the melody makes use of the intervals between the Root, P4 and P5. Crafty.

[JonnyPac]

I'm sure it is a well-known motif, but I somehow overlooked it all these years. Makes me think of Mike Moreno and other modern players as well.

[rtmoran]

Greetings! Jazz guitarist/ student from Upstate, New York... Just wanted to mention that those notes also happen to be the same as the opening head to My Favorite Things... I recognized that right away... Good stuff.. Definitely been playing around with that... thanks for sharing!

edit

Whoops... Didn't realize someone already beat me to the punch.

[Socrates]

I'm sure it is a well-known motif, but I somehow overlooked it all these years. Makes me think of Mike Moreno and other modern players as well.

Yes, using the R P4 and P5 of key or chord can produce great effects. I guess the absence of a major or minor 3rd creates quite a mysterious sound as the tonality is left undefined.
It's funny, I sometimes bemoan the decline of the 3rd in modern rock/pop guitar. It's been all sus2s, sus4s, add 9s etc. since around the late eighties. I wonder if it's to do with our generation deliberately eschewing the sentimentality of the music and attitudes of previous eras. Most standards used in jazz are from the 20's, 30's and 40's, and the harmonies used much more lush than modern pop where the third was rarely ommited.

Glad you posted this, it's given me some new ideas.

I also love MFT's to no end, for all of the same reasons that you stated. It is also a beautiful melody that flows so naturally.

Yes, it's great. The tune has a wonderful inner logic of it's own, balancing strong intervalic leaps with satisfying stepwise runs and chromatic twists. Best of all is it's swung 3/4 time signature. It's a true gem.

[mr. beaumont]

I've been screwing around with these note subsets as an exercise over "giant steps" this morning. Holy crap is this fun.

[bako]

Root-----B----E-----F#--------------Chord
B---------1-----4-----5------------------Bsus
C---------7-----3---#11-----------------CMa7#11
C#------b7----b3-----11-----------------C#m11
D--------13----9-------3------------------D13 or DMa13----no 7th
Eb-------#5---b9-----#9------------------Ebalt
E---------5-----1-------9------------------Eadd9----no 3rd
F
F#-------11----b7------1------------------F#7sus
G---------3-----13------7------------------GMa13
G#-------5------1-------7-------------------Eadd9/G#
Ab-------#9----#5-----b7-------------------Ab7#9#5
A----------9------5-----13-------------------A13 or Am13-----no 3rd
Bb

Suspended chords are versatile. Some possible chords in relation to different root notes.

[Sphere]

Yeah, I mostly use it in a modal situation. You can hear it a lot on late Coltrane recordings. It's an inversion of a quartal triad. That's why it's so versatile.

[jmstritt]

I used it on a country gig this weekend. Haha that was fun. We were playing a tune in G, and I played it from a B and then left into an open string G7 arp type lick. Yeah I got some salty looks for that one ;- )

[brwnhornet59]

I used it on a country gig this weekend. Haha that was fun. We were playing a tune in G, and I played it from a B and then left into an open string G7 arp type lick. Yeah I got some salty looks for that one ;- )

So all of your rowdy friends don't dig stacked 4ths huh? Who would have thunked that country fans were such snobs? Maybe Hank Jr will remedy that, he has a lot of free time these days.

[JonnyPac]

It's an inversion of a quartal triad. That's why it's so versatile.

Right. I should map them all out. Quartals are so flippin' cool, IMO.

[brwnhornet59]

Right. I should map them all out. Quartals are so flippin' cool, IMO.

So right you flipping are Sir!!!

[jmstritt]

So all of your rowdy friends don't dig stacked 4ths huh? Who would have thunked that country fans were such snobs? Maybe Hank Jr will remedy that, he has a lot of free time these days.

They can be snobs but they pay alot better than jazz fans ;-)

[jmstritt]

I jest though, it was mostly salty looks from the bandstand. lol. They liked it though ;-)

[brwnhornet59]

I jest though, it was mostly salty looks from the bandstand. lol. They liked it though ;-)

NICE!!!

As for paying more than Jazz fans, I would say at this point driving truck, like Metheny said, will pay more and be where most of us end up.

I don't do it for the money, I do it for the LOVE of the Art Form!!!

[Larry Feldman]

I hear those as the first 4 notes of Round Midnight (if it was half a step down). Just add the minor 3rd at the end.

[texasjazz]

I've heard those referred to as Tri-Tonics, Bert Ligon book if memory serves.

[JonnyPac]

I've heard those referred to as Tri-Tonics, Bert Ligon book if memory serves.

I'll have to look in there again. Bert is always on top of it!

[texasjazz]

Oh, my mistake Its in Hal Crook's How to Improvise Section V p. 170 under Tritonic Scales. IMHO, if you're serious about learning to play jazz, you should buy Hal Crook's "How to Improvise".