What arpeggios should one know/practice?

[jster]

Embarassingly basic question: So lately, I've been working on arpeggios. Beyond the maj7, dom7, min7, and min7b5 which ones should one be fluent in? If I asked jazz guitar god x to run two octaves of some arpeggio for a chord with two or more extensions, could he whip it out? I'm not even sure how to run one. Say for a maj9 chord, when do you stick the second in?

And, when guys first start trying to tackle Giant Steps, is that the first way to do it, all arpeggios at a slower tempo?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

If I'm going to do a nineth arpeggio, I usually think

1-3-5-7-9

or start on the third:

3-5-7-9

or break it up

3-9-7-5 or 9-3-5-7

or play those backwards, or add some approach notes or repeat some notes or break up the rhythm or ....

"when do you stick the second in?" -- cells like 1-2-3-5 (you did mention Giant Steps) sound more like motifs to me than arpeggios, if making a distinction matters. Hmmm, it probably doesn't, beyond tagging something with a name!

[JohnW400]

I did quite a few when I was at college. I had to take all the pure chords and add all the non chord tones and their chromatic alterations ( b2, 2 , #2, , 4, #4, b6 ,6 ) So you had major, minor augmented and diminished plus these altered notes

Then came the sevenths. I did:

ma7, 7th, mi7,mi7b5. mi7#5 dim7, mi/ma7, ma7#5, ma7b5, 7#5 and 7b5. Then being the sucker for punishment that I am, I did them as inversions then as 2 and three octaves. (adding the altered notes as well of course)

I think it's important to do them off the inversion so that it helps you stay away from the root and makes it easier to see your 3rd and 7th.


For Giant Steps (which is always a work in progress ) I looked to connect the arrpegios so I might get F# A# B C#/ D E F# A /G B D F# /F D Bb Ab G (think strings 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 4 3 2 1 1 2 3 3 4 in first postion for example)

[jster]

I did quite a few when I was at college. I had to take all the pure chords and add all the non chord tones and their chromatic alterations ( b2, 2 , #2, , 4, #4, b6 ,6 ) So you had major, minor augmented and diminished plus these altered notes

Did you find that useful?

Then came the sevenths. I did:

ma7, 7th, mi7,mi7b5. mi7#5 dim7, mi/ma7, ma7#5, ma7b5, 7#5 and 7b5. Then being the sucker for punishment that I am, I did them as inversions then as 2 and three octaves. (adding the altered notes as well of course)

I'm confused. So did it all culminate in three octaves of 5 note chords? And if so, where do you stick the altered note in? Or do you leave out the root as Big Daddy does?

I think it's important to do them off the inversion so that it helps you stay away from the root and makes it easier to see your 3rd and 7th.

Is the root bad? Or is it just you want to see the 3 and 7? I tune in fourths so everything is so easy I have no problem seeing the 3 and the 7? By inversion, you just mean not starting on the root?

[jster]

Help me out guys. Big Daddy leaves out the root. But if you want to run two or three octaves of a five note arpeggio root and all, how do you do it?

Say maj9

123571235712357?

Or:

13572 xxxxx xxxxx?

What is the standard boring way of doing 5 note arpeggios for multiple octaves?

[John Link]

Embarassingly basic question: So lately, I've been working on arpeggios. Beyond the maj7, dom7, min7, and min7b5 which ones should one be fluent in? If I asked jazz guitar god x to run two octaves of some arpeggio for a chord with two or more extensions, could he whip it out? I'm not even sure how to run one. Say for a maj9 chord, when do you stick the second in?

And, when guys first start trying to tackle Giant Steps, is that the first way to do it, all arpeggios at a slower tempo?

One usefull idea is to play a related arpeggio over the chord. Move up the scale two notes. Over Cmaj7 play an Em7 arpeggio, over an Dm7 play a Fma7 arpeggio, over a G7 play a Bm7b5 arpeggio. Two octive arpeggios sound best to me.

[fep]

Similar to John Link's approach...

Just start an arpeggio on some chord tone other than the root, you don't even have to think of the name just pick a chord tone and go...

For instance G7 - G B D F

What if you start on the D and move in 3rds - D F A C or 5 7 9 11
Here's a simple line for G7 using that idea - D F A C D B G G

What if you start on the F and move in 3rds - F A C E or 7 9 11 13
A line for that idea F A C E G F E C D

How about the Flat 9 Ab - Ab C Eb G Bb - b9 11 b13(#5) R #9
or Ab Cb Eb G - b9 3rd b13(#5) R
A Line: G Ab C Eb G Bb G Eb F D
or: G Ab Cb Eb G Bb G Eb F D

What I like about this is you don't have to do the mental substitution thought process, you just go off from a chord tone and run thirds. It's easy to do and easy to hear.

[jster]

Wow, some cool stuff that I can use today! I'm going to try all the ideas you guys have laid out. Very cool. I'll let you know how it turns out. JohnL, I really like your little trick. Very nifty. Fep, I don't have my guitar with me at the moment so I'll have to get back to you on your program. But I'm sorry if I'm being dense about my question, but I still don't understand whether JohnW was running five note arpeggios for three octaves. If he was, I don't see how he was doing it other than 12357 12357 12357. Unless it was some funky 13579 down a step to 13579 down a step to 13579 coming in at 39 half steps start to finish. Maybe that is what they have you guys do in music school?!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

As for multi-octave arps, do people even do these?

I have practiced 13th arps: 1-3-5-7-9-11-13 (Note "have" -- very lazy now!) and I play arps in different registers, but not a single sweeping multi-octave approach. Sounds too shreddy to me.

[JohnW400]

Did you find that useful?



I'm confused. So did it all culminate in three octaves of 5 note chords? And if so, where do you stick the altered note in? Or do you leave out the root as Big Daddy does?



Is the root bad? Or is it just you want to see the 3 and 7? I tune in fourths so everything is so easy I have no problem seeing the 3 and the 7? By inversion, you just mean not starting on the root?

1) It's useful in that it trains the ear and the fingers as to where the notes are for the sounds that you're hearing.

I forgot to menton that these were 1 octave and using every possible fingering you can find. FYI the famous Giant Steps Riff is 1235 or C sus2.
The other thing is after you find them start doing them through the cycle of 4ths in each position. (C F Bb Eb Ab Db ect)

I then moved them to 2 octaves using 9 possible fingering. Then 3 octaves using 3 different setd of fingerings

2) You always stick the altered note between two chord tones

C D E G , C E F G, C E G A B. What BDLH is refering to is the big 13th where you play 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 using different modes. (That's for another day)

3) Always starting and stopping on the root is predictable and boring.


Heres an exercise for you for GS. Play 7th arps starting on one common note and stay in one position. try to always start on the same note for as long as you can.

ex. F# A# B D#/ F# A C D/ F# G B D /F Ab Bb D/ G Bb D Eb ect

[JohnW400]

As for multi-octave arps, do people even do these?

I have practiced 13th arps: 1-3-5-7-9-11-13 (Note "have" -- very lazy now!) and I play arps in different registers, but not a single sweeping multi-octave approach. Sounds too shreddy to me.

Play the scale, play the 13th. All scales and modes. Very important stuff

[jster]

Awesome. Very cool. All of it. I'm going to do everything that everybody suggested. You guys are so helpful. This is right at my level. I wish the other forums I participate in were this good. Back in the day I never worked on arpeggios, but now that I tune in 4ths, they are so easy, I wanna just play every tune with arpeggios for the next 6 months. Here's a Cmaj7 arpeggio with P4:

------x---x-----
------x---x-----
----x---x-------
----x---x-------
--x---x---------
--x---x---------

And a C-7 arpeggio:

------x--x-----
------x--x-----
----x--x-------
----x--x-------
--x--x---------
--x--x---------

Aren't they pretty? And the others are nice too. That's why I'm so stoked. Hehe.

I couldn't hang with you guys, but nevertheless I'm looking at Giant Steps and thinking this should be a piece of cake with my new arps! A few months ago I would have thought OMG, how the $%(*&$% do people play over that?


Big Daddy, if you aren't playing the 13 as a sweep, then how is it really different from just noodling around the mode/scale? Some pattern? Or just emphasizing thirds?

[John Link]

Embarassingly basic question: So lately, I've been working on arpeggios. Beyond the maj7, dom7, min7, and min7b5 which ones should one be fluent in? If I asked jazz guitar god x to run two octaves of some arpeggio for a chord with two or more extensions, could he whip it out? I'm not even sure how to run one. Say for a maj9 chord, when do you stick the second in?

And, when guys first start trying to tackle Giant Steps, is that the first way to do it, all arpeggios at a slower tempo?

Sometimes this sounds good: Against a 7th chord, say G7 or any G altered chord for that mater, move up four frets and play a 7th chord arpeggio. For an example over a G7 play a Bb7 arpeggio, over a C7 play an Eb7 arpeggio. What I normally do is play the normal arpeggio for the first two beats and then move up four frets for the next two beats.

[jster]

Sometimes this sounds good: Against a 7th chord, say G7 or any G altered chord for that mater, move up four frets and play a 7th chord arpeggio. For an example over a G7 play a Bb7 arpeggio, over a C7 play an Eb7 arpeggio. What I normally do is play the normal arpeggio for the first two beats and then move up four frets for the next two beats.

Sorry, three half steps or four?

[timscarey]

As someone who tunes in 4ths, you might gain a lot from doing argeggios in 4ths instead of 3rds.... For example.

G7

B E A D G then jump up wholestep and go back down A E B "tritone" F.

The only thing to keep in mind is the location of the tritone.

You can mix in wholesteps in in places to avoid it, I find this to be refreshing after practicing 3rds for so long.

Good luck.

[jster]

Sorry, Tim, what's the A doing in there?

[timscarey]

Sorry, Tim, what's the A doing in there?

It's the 9th.

[jster]

But you wrote G7. I suppose I should have asked you about the E too.

But yeah, P4 allows for some cool 4ths stuff and of course you need to avoid the tritone. Probably the hippest stuff I am capable of to be honest. I'll hit all six fourths over two or three octaves. Seems to sound best around the 4th chorus. Hehe. I don't really pay much attention to which mode I am in though. Just using the pool of major scale notes. End a line wherever sounds good. But I'm not so sure what this has to do with arpeggios, unless you are kinda saying start with the 3rd&6th because the 3rd is a guide tone.

[timscarey]

At the risk of repeating myself, I was just suggesting practicing moving by 4th instead of 3rd as a way to spice it up.

I suppose I could have said G13 instead of G7 but since you already know what notes to play, i was just suggesting a different approach.

Here's another one.

Replace the root with the 9th, and the 5th with the 13 so that a Cm7 for example becomes

D Eb A Bb D Eb A Bb on up.

Or D13(b9) becomes

Eb F# B C Eb F# B C etc....

Just a thought. Have fun.