The Jazz Slur Rule?

[GuyBoden]

Is this true?

[Tal_175]

That's the typical bebop phrasing horn players used originally. They'd tongue the up beats. On guitar, pulling off on up beats work well. Not sure about the last sentence though.

[mr. beaumont]

Do I think it's a rule that needs to be adhered to?

No.

Does it sound "right?"

Yes, it absolutely does.

[sgosnell]

There are rules?

[pamosmusic]

Is this true?

I do this religiously.

It absolutely works but also has limitations.

Stuff I play swings but also, for example, playing certain types of lines at fast tempos can be very tricky. In particular playing them with consistent time. The slurs can make things easier to play, but at fast tempos it can almost feel like they bunch together or something and time can get too squishy. So that takes a lot of work. I’ve been working on Grant Greens What Is This Thing lately for this reason … it’s up tempo and he picks more than the average. So trying to play it with my usual pattern of slurring is really good practice for working through that challenge.

[edpirie]

By slurring on guitar do we mean picking one note and not the next: hammer-on, pull-off or sliding from one into the other? If so, that seems natural to me most of the time to get the right phrasing.

But sliding into a note (more like a grace note) I would do on or off the beat.

[GuyBoden]

Personally, I don't think it's a rule. I slur on the down beats to the off beats as well. Maybe, that's where I'm going wrong.

[Christian Miller]

I practiced doing this for about a year. I think it helped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GuyBoden]

By slurring on guitar do we mean picking one note and not the next: hammer-on, pull-off or sliding from one into the other? If so, that seems natural to me most of the time to get the right phrasing.

But sliding into a note (more like a grace note) I would do on or off the beat.

To my ears, "Always slur from the offbeat eighth note to the downbeat eighth note" means:

[pamosmusic]

To my ears, "Always slur from the offbeat eighth note to the downbeat eighth note" means:

That would be it.

[pamosmusic]

Personally, I don't think it's a rule. I slur on the down beats to the off beats as well. Maybe, that's where I'm going wrong.

I had a guitar teacher once when I was a freshman in college who made me learn Donna Lee. I came in and played it in the lesson and he stopped me in one part where I was slurring.

He asked me why I slurred there and my answer amounted to that it makes it easier to play and he went on a rant about how guitarists are the only instruments who think they can just play whatever they want however they want as long as it makes it easier.

and I was like

And then he just asked if I’d ever noticed that hammered or pulled notes sound different and I said yes. And he was like … okay then, act like it.

It was fairly intense.

[pamosmusic]

He wasn’t a slur into downbeats guy necessarily. Just that they are a musical effect that should be applied musically.

The downbeats thing I got shortly after that when I was in a masterclass with John Scofield.

[jazznylon]

I have to plan ahead to know whether I'm slurring into the downbeat. I'm guessing if one does it enough times it'll come out when improvising eventually?

[pamosmusic]

I have to plan ahead to know whether I'm slurring into the downbeat. I'm guessing if one does it enough times it'll come out when improvising eventually?

Yeah I don’t arrange the phrase to be able to slur into every downbeat, but kind of trained myself to slur into downbeats when the fingering allows.

Big thing I did was learn bebop heads in different fingering positions and slur into all the downbeats. Over time that sort of did it. But it’s like any improvising thing … it takes a long time to get it to come out naturally

[pamosmusic]

I think it’s worth mentioning that the important thing with slurs and other articulation are that you have control and make musical choices.

I love the way slurring into downbeats sounds and worked really hard to make it happen, but guitar is not saxophone and most guitarists do this a bit but not exclusively. Transcribing big guys you listen to is the move. Wes does this a lot (not all the time), Jim Hall does not, Grant Green super doesn’t.

Ive heard Cecil Alexander mention that he does this quite a bit but the faster the tempo, the more he’s inclined to pick every note. My understanding is that he does this in order to keep the time consistent at those faster tempos.

[jazznylon]

Yeah I don’t arrange the phrase to be able to slur into every downbeat, but kind of trained myself to slur into downbeats when the fingering allows.

Big thing I did was learn bebop heads in different fingering positions and slur into all the downbeats. Over time that sort of did it. But it’s like any improvising thing … it takes a long time to get it to come out naturally

Makes sense. Thanks!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Is this true?

No. If there’s any rule, it’s to play so that it sounds like you want it to sound.

If you pick both the last 8th and the subsequent 1st, you can give equal or even greater emphasis (and by doing so, equal or even greater prominence and importance) to that last beat and note. If you slur into the downbeat, you turn that leading 8th into a long grace note. This shifts the focus to the note on the downbeat and is often used to integrate an “accidental” (which we now call an outside note) into an arpeggio or a run in which that note would otherwise sound odd.

There are also times when you want to accent the last 8th for rhythmic effect. Picking both the last 8th and the following downbeat solidifies the feel of leading the beat by an eighth, which can be a very effective tool for expression. In a small group setting, I like to do this along with bass and drums through as much as a full verse of improvisation, following it by throwing a change-up into straight rhythm. You wouldn’t accent every last eighth - just going into “key” bars, eg before a chord change.

I haven’t played with a horn section in a long time. But in a horn band, when the stabs are hitting that last eighth you can slur from or even ignore the last eighth and the feeling is still there.

[emanresu]

The downward slur is really tricky. It is kinda possible to bypass the rule with heavy effort. Lighter force on the beat, harder tensioning the string before releasing the off beat. But doable.

The upward slur is even harder. Kinda possible, almost passable. But the slur rule forces you to narrow the options

[pamosmusic]

Actually I’ve been kind of obsessed with articulation for a while and I asked a trumpet friend and a sax friend how they’d articulate a jazz line, all eighth notes, and both of them had the same answer.

“Well, what’s the line?”

So any “rule” will at best be a baseline, adjusted frequently depending on other variables and personal taste.

[JGUSS]

Pick the up beats and hammer, pull off or glissando into the downbeats. It’s hard to do at faster tempos. Accentuates the syncopated nature of jazz lines I think.