Sunglasses, dodecaphonics, guitar forums, let's spread love, not hate

[jzucker]

A little discussion and rant about attempting to discuss advanced improvisational concepts in guitar forums!

[GuyBoden]

Yes, "let's be a positive force, for each other."

[Mick-7]

"I'm not wearing these sunglasses because I'm trying to be cool"

Hey, it worked for Howard Roberts! Never saw him without them.

And Howard studied 12 tone music (a.k.a., dodecaphonic music) composition at USC. Maybe it's bad for your eyes?

[RJVB]

Not wearing sunglasses around the house, but still reading (not hearing, fortunately) dodecacophonics

[Reg]

Yea... love ya right back.
Thanks for reminding us.
Reg

[MarkRhodes]

Well said, Jack.
And take care of those eyes! Just had cataract surgery and have spent a lot of time behind big-ass sunglasses. I was born with distachiasis (which was called, when I was a kid, "ingrown eyelashes." They come through tear ducts and rub against the eye. Drove me batty as a toddler but it was hard for anyone to tell why I constantly rubbed my eyes. Finally found out. Had surgery but it wasn't fully effective. I'm still bothered by those lashes sometimes. I think all the rubbing I did as a kid is the reason I developed a "lazy eye" but no one can say for sure. Light sensitivity is much more bothersome than a simple description of it makes it sound.)



I think being a positive force for each other is what adults who share a passion should be about. It doesn't mean we have to agree about everything but that we can "live and let live" for the most part. (We each may be allowed one hill to die on. That's okay too.) And we can appreciate things others do that we don't wish to do ourselves. (I enjoy hearing Django play but that's not a style of playing I pursue. Same for fusion. Even if I don't play "out" much, it's good---to my mind---to know how that works. And some may wish to go further out than others; all well and good. Life is wide.

[MarkRhodes]

[jzucker]

Well said, Jack.
And take care of those eyes! Just had cataract surgery and have spent a lot of time behind big-ass sunglasses. I was born with distachiasis (which was called, when I was a kid, "ingrown eyelashes." They come through tear ducts and rub against the eye. Drove me batty as a toddler but it was hard for anyone to tell why I constantly rubbed my eyes. Finally found out. Had surgery but it wasn't fully effective. I'm still bothered by those lashes sometimes. I think all the rubbing I did as a kid is the reason I developed a "lazy eye" but no one can say for sure. Light sensitivity is much more bothersome than a simple description of it makes it sound.)

Sounds similar to my background.

I think being a positive force for each other is what adults who share a passion should be about. It doesn't mean we have to agree about everything but that we can "live and let live" for the most part. (We each may be allowed one hill to die on. That's okay too.) And we can appreciate things others do that we don't wish to do ourselves. (I enjoy hearing Django play but that's not a style of playing I pursue. Same for fusion. Even if I don't play "out" much, it's good---to my mind---to know how that works. And some may wish to go further out than others; all well and good. Life is wide.

Not sure why people don't get that. There just seems to be a lot of combativeness here, thegearpage, reddit, etc.

There are many great guys here though. A vast majority of the forum are great people but there are a few who focus on the negative. I never understood what causes people to put others down in public or to argue the point over and over. Why not just put out something yourself establishing your own philosophy?

Case in point, In the forum I run on facebook, ben eunson posted a clip playing over all the things you are. Ben's a wonderful player. Tons of chops. Styling on the modern/legato side, uses a tinge of overdrive in his tone. Well, wouldn't you know it, some guy pipes in that he's not making the changes.

Anyone who knows jazz could clearly hear he was making the changes. Maybe not in a strictly '50s style but his playing is a bit like mike brecker on guitar, using a lot of altered arpeggios, scales, etc.

I replied back that I could clearly hear the changes but also implored him not to make negative comments about someone's clip in public. Afterall, Ben is a friend of mine, reads the forum and I'm sure is bothered when he reads something like that. He's also a super nice guy.

Well, the guy wouldn't back down and went on and on about it. I finally deleted his comment and sent him a private message.

Now I ask you this.

WHAT DID HE ACCOMPLISH WITH HIS NEGATIVITY?

Did he improve the pedagogy of jazz guitar? Did he give people useful information they could use to get better? Was he helpful in any way?

[ccroft]

Jack, you ol' hippy you! :)

I totally support your statements. I've actually wanted to say something on this many times, but backed off since I figured I'd probably end up in a battle. This might be the right time to get it off my chest.

I've had a few run-ins here with people who don't enjoy some of the music I like. Instead of just passing it by they feel the need to put it down for some reason. In these cases I wish they'd just let the other side support each other and have some fun.

To them I say: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it has to be aired. You don't have to nail everything that moves. Sometimes it's better to keep your dick in your pants.

A lot of really good people have left or almost stopped posting because of it. It's actually harmful.

Keep posting brother! You're one of the good ones. I look forward to exploring these... dodecaphonics? Something tells me I'll like them. (my goodness, what a word to be tossing around in jazz :)

love and peace
chas.

[jzucker]

Jack, you ol' hippy you!

I totally support your statements. I've actually wanted to say something on this many times, but backed off since I figured I'd probably end up in a battle. This might be the right time to get it off my chest.

I've had a few run-ins here with people who don't enjoy some of the music I like. Instead of just passing it by they feel the need to put it down for some reason. In these cases I wish they'd just let the other side support each other and have some fun.

To them I say: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it has to be aired. You don't have to nail everything that moves. Sometimes it's better to keep your dick in your pants.

A lot of really good people have left or almost stopped posting because of it. It's actually harmful.

Keep posting brother! You're one of the good ones. I look forward to exploring these... dodecaphonics? Something tells me I'll like them. (my goodness, what a word to be tossing around in jazz

love and peace
chas.

Thank you my friend...

[pamosmusic]

Now I ask you this.

WHAT DID HE ACCOMPLISH WITH HIS NEGATIVITY?

Everyone knows how smart he is now.

[BreckerFan]

Case in point, In the forum I run on facebook, ben eunson posted a clip playing over all the things you are. Ben's a wonderful player. Tons of chops. Styling on the modern/legato side, uses a tinge of overdrive in his tone. Well, wouldn't you know it, some guy pipes in that he's not making the changes.

Lol at anyone who would accuse ben of not making the changes.

Ben doesn't have to worry about making the changes. The changes have to worry about not making Ben.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah, I mean I don’t see this as about having to be happy clappy about everything, but instead directing passion towards the things that you actually enjoy, both in your own playing and other peoples.

I mean I have definite tastes - and I think having strong tastes is important for forming your own musical identity - so there’s loads of players that don’t do it for me (there are many players also that I don’t personally connect with, but do respect) and when people gush about one of these guys I’m not into, it’s tempting to respond negatively. I’ve done that over the years lol.

But I think all that does is make me look bad.

(There’s also players I like but don’t listen to much for whatever reason.)

Besides it’s one thing to criticise what another player does and quite another to exemplify what’s important to you in your own music.

And if you are on that path yourself, I think you have to respect the effort that goes into playing this daft boondoggle of an instrument to a high level. Show me a player of this music that hasn’t worked incredibly hard!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ruger9]

Not sure why people don't get that. There just seems to be a lot of combativeness here, thegearpage, reddit, etc.

Just my take on this phenomena: we are in an age where people feel the need to be right. [and no, it's not "just like always", I think it's far worse now, based on my 55 years on the planet, mostly due to the internet/social media.] Just having an opinion isn't good enough, their opinion must also be right/the truth, because it's how they define themselves. They can't handle the idea that they could be wrong, or could have been believing something that isn't truth, because it makes them think less of themselves. It's a lack of humility. Also a lack of true self-confidence (not arrogant self-confidence.) Me? I'm happy to be proven wrong, as that means I'm one step closer to the truth, and truth is what I always seek. That doesn't mean everything is black/white and there always is one truth, there's three sides to every story, and all the sides could contain truth. People need to spend more time searching for truth than trying to prove that what they believe IS truth.

The fact that it's an internet forum just multiplies the hostility and need to be right. Many of you have probably seen the video where dogs are barking at each other through a gate. The gate starts opening, and the dogs follow it, continuing their furious anger at one another, until the gate disappears into the wall and there is nothing between them. All of a sudden, the barking stops. Hostility stops. Because shit just got real LOL. Internet forums are the gate.

[jzucker]

i don't think i said anything about being happy-clappy. But let's have respect for each other and our differences.

Yeah, I mean I don’t see this as about having to be happy clappy about everything, but instead directing passion towards the things that you actually enjoy, both in your own playing and other peoples.

I mean I have definite tastes - and I think having strong tastes is important for forming your own musical identity - so there’s loads of players that don’t do it for me (there are many players also that I don’t personally connect with, but do respect) and when people gush about one of these guys I’m not into, it’s tempting to respond negatively. I’ve done that over the years lol.

But I think all that does is make me look bad.

(There’s also players I like but don’t listen to much for whatever reason.)

Besides it’s one thing to criticise what another player does and quite another to exemplify what’s important to you in your own music.

And if you are on that path yourself, I think you have to respect the effort that goes into playing this daft boondoggle of an instrument to a high level. Show me a player of this music that hasn’t worked incredibly hard!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

i don't think i said anything about being happy-clappy.

My intention was not to imply you did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mr. beaumont]

Just my take on this phenomena: we are in an age where people feel the need to be right.

Which is of course, 100% correct

[lawson-stone]

On your dodecaphonic idea, it has an application for us "middling" players that I don't hear talked about much. My problem is that I've just hit the ceiling when it comes to chops and technique. My hands can't go any faster than 180-200 bpm. I will never rip lightning lines all over the place. So the question for me is always, how do I make more compelling, or at least, less mediocre, music given my chops are just flat-lined at a fairly moderate level.

The answer is simply, learn to play better and more interesting harmonic and melodic ideas over the same old changes. So I am always looking for better ways to make my moderate tempo playing more interesting at the point of note-choice. So your idea of building lines for all the chord types on minor third increments is something new and fresh for me. Will it sound great when I do it? I won't know until I've given it a good try. I imagine what will happen is I'll find a lot of things that work really well, some others I just won't be able to pull off, still others will lie in the background and maybe I'll "get it" later.

But for guys like me, the creativity has to be in the note-choice, articulation, and phrasing, since I'll never wow anyone with my chops.

[jzucker]

On your dodecaphonic idea, it has an application for us "middling" players that I don't hear talked about much. My problem is that I've just hit the ceiling when it comes to chops and technique. My hands can't go any faster than 180-200 bpm. I will never rip lightning lines all over the place. So the question for me is always, how do I make more compelling, or at least, less mediocre, music given my chops are just flat-lined at a fairly moderate level.

The answer is simply, learn to play better and more interesting harmonic and melodic ideas over the same old changes. So I am always looking for better ways to make my moderate tempo playing more interesting at the point of note-choice. So your idea of building lines for all the chord types on minor third increments is something new and fresh for me. Will it sound great when I do it? I won't know until I've given it a good try. I imagine what will happen is I'll find a lot of things that work really well, some others I just won't be able to pull off, still others will lie in the background and maybe I'll "get it" later.

But for guys like me, the creativity has to be in the note-choice, articulation, and phrasing, since I'll never wow anyone with my chops.

I'm planning on doing some more examples that are more accessible for folks with different levels of chops. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been thinking about it for a while ...

[lawson-stone]

I'm planning on doing some more examples that are more accessible for folks with different levels of chops. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been thinking about it for a while ...

I guess one thing that my speed-limit has done is force me to think about ideas, about exploration. Of course, I think rapid playing is a wonderful way to express ideas too. I don't see the dichotomy of fast vs. melodic the way some do. But for those of us who struggle with getting to "fast" the question becomes "Is there any other way on the guitar I can play improvised music that listeners will find compelling and worthwhile."

[Ukena]

Thank you for this, Jack. As a forum member of a few years (converted from the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum) and a late adherent of and striver in jazz guitar, I have always found your posts to be super-informative and indicative of your passion for the music, even as the content proves to be far beyond my current capabilities (hope springs eternal).

Forums allow many of us to be arrogant know-it-alls with our anonymity. We type things we most likely would never say to someone in person, and often, backing down from a belligerent or caustic reply is not seen as an option. When there is no downside to negativity, far too many of us choose it.

I believe we could all strive to be mindful of your explanations and requests in this thread.

[RLetson]

While reading remarks above on speed and such, what popped into my head was the Robert Browning lines that "a man's reach should exceed his grasp,/ Or what's a heaven for?" Except I'm thinking that a performer's available chops should exceed what's actually played. To put it another way, just because you can doesn't mean you should, musically.

I'll see myself out.

[jzucker]

Thank you for this, Jack. As a forum member of a few years (converted from the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum) and a late adherent of and striver in jazz guitar, I have always found your posts to be super-informative and indicative of your passion for the music, even as the content proves to be far beyond my current capabilities (hope springs eternal).

Forums allow many of us to be arrogant know-it-alls with our anonymity. We type things we most likely would never say to someone in person, and often, backing down from a belligerent or caustic reply is not seen as an option. When there is no downside to negativity, far too many of us choose it.

I believe we could all strive to be mindful of your explanations and requests in this thread.

thanks for that. We're all human. I'm no better than anyone else in this regard but I do try to ask myself whether something would be respectful to that person and like in the ben eunson example, would the person being talked about in a negative light feel bad upon seeing the comment.

We should all ask ourselves that before posting negatively about someone's playing...

[pingu]

I so glad you do those videos Jack
I look at them , and try to get
something out of them

so thank you for those

Peace and harmony !

PS the shades are cool too

[jzucker]

I so glad you do those videos Jack
I look at them , and try to get
something out of them

so thank you for those

Peace and harmony !

PS the shades are cool too

Thanks my friend.