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Hello everyone,
I just joined the forum and look forward to learning from all the discussions and contributing where possible.
I have been playing classical guitar for the past few years and just realized that besides having listened to Jazz for most of my life, and played some on the piano, I can also start to play some on a guitar. My first electric (semi-hollow) just arrived with an amp and I am now exploring how my classical guitar training transfers to Jazz on the semi-hollow (I will still continue also with classical guitar and likely also do some Jazz on my nylon string guitar). Any advice for my start into Jazz guitar coming from classical guitar is much appreciated. I so far found good material in these books to work with:
- Alexander Vinitsky, Jazz for Classical Guitar Made Easy (wonderful for getting into Jazz on a nylon string guitar coming from classical guitar)
- Jens Larsen, Modern Jazz Guitar Concepts (I love Jens' youtube channel and the book seems to compile many of the concepts he shares there)
- Jeff Schroedl, Jazz Guitar (Hal Leonard) (seems a conventional yet solid and complete method, complementary to the other two)
A specific question I have is about how to transfer my classical guitar right hand technique to the Jazz guitar on semi-hollow electric (I play with mid/short-length nails filed to a ramp). Is it the same technique? Can I pick softer as I have the amp and still get a good tone (and save my nails from getting consumed by the steel strings)? Are there any adjustments I should look into making when playing Jazz with PIMA on steel strings? It seems the bridge and neck pick ups substitute moving the hand closer to either - is that right and does that mean the right hand position along the strings matters less on electric than on nylon, leading to keeping the right hand in pretty much the same position between bridge and neck? etc...
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03-09-2024 01:44 PM
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Heya GT,
You can still get tonal variation by where you pick the strings. Since you said you just got your first electric, you'll probably answer most of the other questions yourself after playing it a bit!
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Lots of Jazz guitarists use finger style, including myself.
One of the best 'Modern' players using finger style picking is Matteo Mancuso.
"Matteo Mancuso has two positions for his right-hand picking. One, for addressing scale-based runs, the other using thumb and all four digits of his right-hand to play arpeggios and skip strings."
I prefer his style "for addressing scale-based runs, the other using thumb and all four digits of his right-hand to play arpeggios and skip strings."
You could watch this video and adopt a similar style using your own finger style picking technique.
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Muting might be an issue to work on, depending on your style.
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When playing classical guitar, there is that basic "posture" and position for the right hand.
But that exact way is not gonna work so well on electric - it is surely different.
I think the hand adjusts itself and there is no need to overthink. See what feels and sounds good.
The nails should be fine unless you like to play with heavily accentuated swing.
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I don't know of any books on technique, but listening to Charlie Byrd may give you some ideas. I think there are some instructional videos of his on the internet.
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Dont really agree with this. Nails good all the time, probably more important for swinging since it’s such a huge part of having a crisp articulation in fingerstyle.
Originally Posted by emanresu
As for hand position, proper classical hand position shouldn’t be anchored to the top of the instrument anywhere. Points of contact are the leg, chest, and elbow, and the hand should float.
The big thing for me I would probably be having a small electric guitar adjusted with a strap so that the headstock is up where you’d like it to be for classical guitar. For an acoustic guitar, just holding it w footstool or support like usual.
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These are great pointers - super helpful!
@GuyBoden, Mancuso’s technique and his descriptions are great. I had recently come across an interview Rick Beato did with him, so, thanks for pointing my direction more specifically towards his fingerstyle technique.
@Christian Miller, the issue of muting takes on indeed a whole new role with electric compared to nylon. With the nylon guitar hearing the ring of the resonating overtones is a delight - with the electric and its much longer sustain, I am discovering that it can be a bit too much of a delight. I am experimenting with ways to mute strings without assuming too cramped a right hand position and keeping hand and fingers relaxed. Using the right hand palm on the bridge just really throws off my hand posture, so trying other ways.
@pamosmusic, right, keeping the right hand floating with only fingertips/nail touching is what I am used to. It seems to work reasonably well also on the electric so far. My nails are just a bit over the fingertips but filed with a ramp and seem to work. I am experimenting with keeping the right hand thumb at times planted on the lower E string which helps mute it, and keep those overtones in check. As of now I enjoy using a strap and having the neck up quite high - indeed similar to how I would position a classical guitar.
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Welcome to the forum!
I am not a legit classical player but I was for about two years before switching from classical guitar major to jazz guitar major in university long ago. I still keep very short nails on the RH. They are useful for so-called "hybrid" RH technique: plectrum and fingernails.
I haven't made a serious attempt to apply my right-hand PIMA technique to electric guitar in a long while, but Matteo has rekindled my interest :-)
As I've watched many of his videos in an attempt to cop some of his right-hand technique, I've noticed that his right-hand position doesn't seem to be quite the "legit classical" position when he's doing freestroke; he seems to strike (or, rather, brush) the strings off-axis, at a 45 degree angle. I suspect this is because playing 9s or 10s with "correct" right-hand technique would be nearly impossible. There's just not enough string tension finger-pick in that way. At least, that has been my experience. And the mechanics of fingerpicking an electric guitar would seem to be completely different from those of an acoustic guitar: you need to set the string in motion, to create a good tone, but not to generate volume - the electronics do that - so anything more than a light touch seems to be a waste of energy, if not an outright hindrance to fluid technique.
Heavier strings on a jazz archtop would probably suit standard classical RH technique well.
I find that classical left-hand technique (thumb on the center of the neck, perpendicular to the strings) works very well for jazz repertoire except in those cases in which you need to position your thumb at an angle to be able to fret certain chords. i.e. 99% of your LH technique will transfer over to jazz playing "as is".
My $0.02 - YMMV
SJ
PS: Another very fine jazz player who uses fingerstyle RH technique is Pasquale Grasso. I can't tell you anything about his mechanical technique; hoping another member of the forum can chime in...
PPS: You'll want to listen to - and steal ideas from - lots of jazz guitarists and jazz tunes rather than (or in addition to) focusing too much on a method book. You've already got solid mechanical and musical skills. What you probably need most is to learn to think like a jazz player: melodically, harmonically and especially rhythmically: swing vs straight-time feel.
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It's great to hear about your transition into jazz guitar from a classical background. As you explore your new semi-hollow electric, you may need to adapt your classical right-hand technique for steel strings. Experiment with picking angles and pressures to find the right balance between tone and preserving your nails. With the amp, you can control volume and tone more easily, allowing for softer picking while still achieving a good tone. Experiment with pickup positions to find your preferred sound, and remember that electric guitarists often keep their right hand in a consistent position between the bridge and neck.
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Pasquale is AFAIK a hybrid pick and fingers player when playing jazz, although he was also competition winning classical player.
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Consider a mechanical option. I've noticed that some finger style players, including Matteo I believe, put a string damper at the nut. This helps reduce the open strings from ringing when you're playing on other strings. Originally Posted by TheGentleTone
at least, in terms of the tones typically used in playing jazz on an electric guitar, a light touch provides a better sound than a heavy or aggressive touch.
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I think it depends on the guitar and your style Originally Posted by Cunamara
I played with a floating hand position for a long time. It was appropriate for a hollow box with heavy strings but less so for a more 'modern' approach with a more legato sound. The problems on the former case with muting would have been solved with a string damper because it was mostly just feedback when I was in front of the amp speaker. Usually it wasn't too much of a problem.
For legato guitar styles with distortion it's amazing to me how little impetus you need to get a string in motion.
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I play exclusively finger style picking, but with all five fingers, I initially started using a string dampener, but after a while my technique improved or compensated to the extent that I didn't need it. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Yes, you're correct, an extremely light finger picking touch and fretting is how I accomplished this on electric guitar.
Less picking notes, more slurs, slurs and then more slurs.
This is my five finger picking style:
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I was a classical dork for a time, so maybe this is me …
… but the floating hand is not about tone necessarily. It is in part, because it allows lift in the hand that you need to play through the string with your big knuckles. It’s also to prevent extension of the wrist. If you lower your hand so that your palm is muting at the bridge, your hand will also be jutting up from the wrist at an angle. Moving the digits with the wrist in that position is carpal tunnel city.
If you imagine what an office worker looks like when they type, then compare it to what your wrist looks like with the palm against the bridge, you’ll see it. Then remember why that office worker buys an ergonomic keyboard or wrist support when their fingers start going numb.
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I like that I watched an Ana Vidovic masterclass and she was like ‘keep your wrists straight, practice slow’
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I played a Scarlatti sonata in a masterclass for her once. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
It was devastating.
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Classical masterclasses are an advanced form of torture at the best of times
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Classical guitar, you have the basic shape, posture. The basic. But it is just the start. The picking hand can move here and there, change everything - shape, position, angles. Be flexible.
With those thin electric guitars with very very different means of producing sound, it just doesn't work the same way, try as you might.
It can be similar but surely is not the same.
edit: just for fun I tried to use the exact same hand as my classical on the electric. It just won't work. Thin-sounding, wrong angles, uncomfortable, unreliable - the strings are way thinner and are much closer to eachother. The physical method of producing the tone is different... um, the physics is different. Strings need to vibrate in different angle for a good tone.
I mean, no. The hand does it's own adjustments, it is close but not the same at all.Last edited by emanresu; 03-16-2024 at 04:31 PM.
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I was just watching Tuck Andress Master Class, it has 4 parts. He plays fingerstyle on an archtop and he covers a wide range of right and left hand playing techniques, most or maybe even all of which can also be played with a pick.
1)
2)
3)
4)
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Hi!
Even if I mostly play with plectrum, I love playing fingerstyle and I'm even planning to gradually introduce this technique in my playing.
For me, the challenge is:
1) Get a good tone, close to plectrum
2) Get the same tone on fingers
3) Keep the sustain on fast lines
Point 2 is the most difficult: each finger has his own subtle tonal variation (maybe this is due to my still raw techinique). Also, thumbpick has another sound too, not counting the tonal variation between upstroke and downstroke: I spent many years to make them very similar with the pick, and it's so much harder with fingers!
So far, the best solution for me is
1) Fake nails
2) Thumbpick
And of course a lot of practice/experiments.
Here's an old video: this song was originally meant to be played with pick, and I play it with just thumbpick and middle finger to mimic pick sound.
Now I switched to index finger, it's even more close to the sound of the thumbpick.
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