-
It occurs to me I may have never understood what a straight wrist is.
-
03-05-2024 04:21 PM
-
I have a straight wrist. Never thought about it, just sorted itself out over time I guess....
-
Remember kids, whenever you have a question about technique, you should always watch one of my videos.
And then don't do what I do.
-
I think there is a great advantage to keeping a straight wrist.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If you had asked me last week, I would have answered, "Well, yeah, sure, my wrist is straight." But I was wrong.
I think this is why I have worried about my picking so much over the years. But the inconsistency wasn't rooted in how I held the pick or the kind of pick I used; rather, the inconsistency stemmed from starting with a bent wrist.
O, well, onward and upward.
-
Hey Mark,
Recently, someone sent me a VERY old picture of my rock band days and ... whaddya know, my wrist is angled like your "bent wrist" example.
Since then, over the decades, I have changed my picking motion, my pick grip, the kinds of picks and strings I use... all sorts of things. And each variation improved my picking a bit... till I discovered the thing I couldn't do with my latest approach and started trying to solve the next challenge. Kind of like walking a winding or hilly road: each time you round a bend or crest a hilltop, it reveals another bend or hilltop.
A few months back, I subscribed to the Troy Grady "Masters in Mechanics" series. Watching and working through that changed everything about how I pick - yet again - but I made a bigger leap in my picking abilities. I would really recommend this site to anyone who wants to make serious improvements in picking ability. I have no affiliation other than being a satisfied customer. I subscribed for about 3 months and then stopped because I got a bit caught up in non-musical aspects of life that were demanding my time. But it was ~$100 well spent.
One thing I got from MIM was that there are lots of ways that work well. The MIM vids are full of pro players that showcase incredibly varied approaches to picking, all of which work really well. So two takeaways:
- Any limitations you may be encountering are probably not as simple as just how you are holding your wrist. Picking fluency is about how you hold your wrist, how you hold the pick, how you escape adjacent strings when moving between them, and how well-rehearsed your muscles are (muscle memory and stamina) at an efficient motion that allows you to realize fluid, flexible execution of your melodic ideas.
- Find what works FOR YOU. If nothing else, MIM will show you (with detailed slow-mo video closeups of pro players) lots of good approaches to try. When you find the thing that works for you, polish it to a high gloss.
I'm still buffing out some gouges and deep scratches, myself :-) but I found the course to be really helpful.
Do I play with bent wrist now? Not that I know of. Do I have one way that I pick now? Kind of. But I am still experimenting with different pick grips and picking motions that MIM showed me.
The thing about being able to play well and then having it disappear after a distraction like a knock at the door is one of the things Troy talks about. Basically you learn to feel the "good motion" that produces success and then you practice that. At tempo. Maybe you can only do it for a second at first. Eventually you learn the feel of the picking motion that works for you and by practicing that you develop the ability to do it for longer periods of time and with greater consistency.
Finally, Troy has a ton of stuff online for free if you just want to browse without committing. It was the latest Martin Miller interview that got me to pony up. He's a great player and the interview really dissects his picking mechanics as well as some of his harmonic approach. Pretty much every lick he plays is transcribed in standard notation and tab, as well.
HTH,
SJ
PS - The vast majority of troygrady.com is metal-oriented, but you can apply that technique to your favorite Jimmy Raney or Pat Martino lines :-)Last edited by starjasmine; 03-06-2024 at 02:19 AM.
-
I think it's important that the fretting hand wrist is straight too.
-
Yeah, I watched your video. So, I went through some Facebook pictures to confirm first. I like to hybrid pick chords, pick on the bass note, fingers on the others, so that helps keep me in the right position. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I think there is a great advantage to keeping a straight wrist.
If you had asked me last week, I would have answered, "Well, yeah, sure, my wrist is straight." But I was wrong.
I think this is why I have worried about my picking so much over the years. But the inconsistency wasn't rooted in how I held the pick or the kind of pick I used; rather, the inconsistency stemmed from starting with a bent wrist.
O, well, onward and upward.
-
Thank you for the detailed post, and congratulations on your improvement! Originally Posted by starjasmine
As for Troy's site, I'm familiar. Subscribed for a time and got feedback on my picking from Troy and also from Tommo. (More from Tommo than from Troy.) I learned some useful things but not what I now take to be the source of my maddening inconsistency: the way I held my wrist. Funnily enough, I have Tommo's course on DSX picking, but as soon as I straightened my wrist, I became a USX picker.
Once I straighten my wrist, other things seem to fall into place. It will take a spell before I'm used to it. (It's easy to fall back into a bad habit.) Then I'll go back for another month and submit a new video. Who knows where I'll be at in a few months???
-
Yes! Bending that too much can cause problems, as I learned the hard way. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
-
I learned the hard way too, bending my fretting hand wrist using a 27inch scale guitar wasn't a good idea. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
See video below of a Cello sound, look at the bend in my fretting hand wrist at the low position, eek.
It's no wonder I started wearing a wrist brace.
-
A follow up:
-
It doesn't look that bad to me. It's the opposite fretting hand wrist bend that a lot of guitar players do that I think is more likely to cause wrist injury problems. The wrist bend when the thumb hangs over the top of the neck or fretting notes with the thumb really creates binding of the tendons and muscles running through the wrist. I can feel it if I move thru the wrist positions while wiggling my fingers, when i feel resistance or binding of the tendons is when I bend the wrist backwards like in the thumb over the neck position. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I learned the hard way too, bending my fretting hand wrist using a 27inch scale guitar wasn't a good idea.
See video below of a Cello sound, look at the bend in my fretting hand wrist at the low position, eek.
It's no wonder I started wearing a wrist brace.
Those that learned the classical guitar position have their thumb similar to where you have your thumb. I think that is safer for one's wrist.
-
I never thought of a straight picking hand wrist. And it's not something I'm aware of or can see unless I have a camera or a mirror from front on. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Just looked at my front on view with a webcam, I do have a straight wrist when using a pick. I not sure I understand why the straight or bent wrist would be better or worse. FWIW, I can't pick very fast but I think my problem is related to string skipping and moving my picking hand in and out of the plane of the strings too much.
But I have a slightly bent wrist when I'm picking fingerstyle. And a very bent wrist when playing bass.
Which had me wondering, hmm what about Matteo? Slightly bent wrist using free strokes, very bent wrist using rest strokes. Yes it's fingerstyle but still talking about freedom of hand movement and he sure has that.
-
I prefer to avoid better or worse talk aside from things that are likely to cause injury. (A bent wrist on the fretting hand, if prolonged, can cause injury.) Originally Posted by fep
As for the right hand, I do recall Carol Kaye stressing one should keep a "flat wrist." She was talking about playing bass with a pick. I had assumed my wrist WAS straight. (Or at least, 'close enough for rock'n'roll.') At least to start with. I realize that some styles (Gypsy jazz, Benson picking) call for a bend in the wrist, though I am not here talking about THAT bend.
What has struck me lately is that my wrist is cocked from the get-go.
Imagine your hand is a clock face. Hold your hand up in front of your face. When I do that, my middle finger is pointing toward 12 o'clock.
But when I play, the position is more toward 10 o'clock.
I'm not saying that is bad in itself.
For me, it resulted in inconsistent playing. (I think that this bend results in a more "jiggly" or rotational picking motion than the other way.)
-
For me (and this is just based on what I recall from trying different approaches, not from looking in a mirror) the bend is more towards 2 o'clock and it's not a lot. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Either amount of bend (10am or 2pm) does not seem excessive.
What you are showing at 1:39 in your second video seems more like 4:00pm, and it seems like the max amount one could bend the wrist in that direction.
Could you achieve the same pickstroke by avoiding side-to-side bend but arching the wrist towards the strings? I.e. if 10am - 2pm is "side to side" what I am talking about would be "down"... if that makes any sense. I am pretty sure there are some pros in the MIM vids that do this...
Just a thought...
-
Now you tell me! I've been watching that video you made of Stella by Starlight and using that to improve my technique. You're too humble but that is refreshing. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1eVt875dYs4 Originally Posted by starjasmine
-
Both are no dice. Originally Posted by fep
Extension and flexion in the wrist will both get you when you start moving your fingers.
That straight from the physical therapist who treated the carpal tunnel I developed at age 22.
Sigh.
-
Hi Mark Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Thanks for the short vid. In my first reply, I was thinking of looking down on the top (fingernail side) of my picking (right) hand. So recalibrating according to your latest video, I might be bending the wrist slightly towards 10 o'clock. i.e. we are both bending in the same direction: towards the pinky-finger side of the wrist. But in my case, not much bend.
-
Thanks. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
-
Mine as well and never thought about it. That said, I am not sure that any advice for technique other than whatever works for you is good advice. Anatomies are all different. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
-
I realize now what I'm talking about in the first video is "ulnar deviation" of the picking hand wrist. That's where I tend to START playing.
Imagine placing your pick on top of a string.
Not pushing through but resting there.
Then subtly push upward on the string without striking through it. This will bend (arch?) the wrist. That position tends to be where I START a pickstroke.
It's not deliberate.
It's a habit.
Have no idea when I developed it.
This makes upstrokes slightly more forceful than my downstrokes.
It also makes upstrokes longer. (Not surprising, they have further to go.)
Reply With Quote
Moffa Mithra
Today, 08:31 AM in For Sale