Benson Picking - economy picking when switching to lower strings

[Geetar]

Has anyone adapted economy picking when switching to lower strings with Benson picking or do you stick with alternate picking that many seem to be recommending with this grip ?

Has anyone tried and failed realizing that alternate picking was the better way to go ?

I am thinking if I practice this method it would require less thinking with string changes but don’t want to practice something this is physically a lot less efficient especially at fast tempos.

Thanks for your input ! I tried asking this in another forum but didn’t get any direct answers..

[BreckerFan]

Adam Rogers has a Benson-ish grip and uses a lot of economy picking.

I think really it's a question of if it feels natural. Typically Benson pickers are upstroke escape which wouldn't lend itself to descending economy picking (Im assuming that's what you mean be changing to a lower string). But Rogers' grip seems to accommodate it fine. Like a standard pick grip, a Benson style grip can probably accommodate a range of different picking motions.

This is probably a case where you should try it fast first. If you can do it naturally at a high tempo, even if it's not perfectly clean, then is probably works, and you can spend time cleaning it up. If it feels awkward and like you're fighting your body, you may need to revise your approach.

[Geetar]

Adam Rogers has a Benson-ish grip and uses a lot of economy picking.

I think really it's a question of if it feels natural. Typically Benson pickers are upstroke escape which wouldn't lend itself to descending economy picking (Im assuming that's what you mean be changing to a lower string). But Rogers' grip seems to accommodate it fine. Like a standard pick grip, a Benson style grip can probably accommodate a range of different picking motions.

This is probably a case where you should try it fast first. If you can do it naturally at a high tempo, even if it's not perfectly clean, then is probably works, and you can spend time cleaning it up. If it feels awkward and like you're fighting your body, you may need to revise your approach.

Thanks this is a great answer and is nice to confirm Adam Rogers does this as well!
He always appears very relaxed when picking . Does he use rest strokes as well?

I’ve found the steeper picking angle (a la Dan Wilson ) is more comfortable on keeping the pick in place but makes descending economy picking (thanks for the term ) more challenging .

[dasein]

Yes, you definitely can use economy picking. In addition to Adam Rogers, Miles Okazaki picks like this.

The big difference is the kind of sound you'll get. My sense with Benson was that he was aiming for a feel that was similar to someone like Stanley Turrentine -- swinging, but also rooted in an earthy R&B feel, that works very well for hard bop. Once you have the technique down, it is (relatively) easy to get eighth note lines going that feel very grounded and in the pocket. It also works very well for a lot of typical jazz licks, where there's a tendency to use an arpeggio or seventh chord going up and a scale line going down. But there are some lines that really feel awkward using that technique.

Economy picking feels very effortless and it's easy to get a nice legato feel, but it's harder to really dig in and sit in the pocket -- there's always a tendency to rush or "blur" through it without a lot of accents or "pop" to your lines. It's not impossible, of course, but it's something you'll have to pay extra close attention to.

There's also no rule that you can't mix and match. I started out as an economy picker (nobody taught me anything about picking when I first started, and it just seemed like the logical thing to do -- the idea of strict alternate picking never even crossed my mind). Later, I picked up more traditional Benson rest-stroke picking. Took some time, but now I can basically switch between them as needed. It's nice to have both in your bag.

[bediles]

Miles, Adam Rogers and Jocelyn Gould all do it to some extent.

[Geetar]

Yes, you definitely can use economy picking. In addition to Adam Rogers, Miles Okazaki picks like this.

The big difference is the kind of sound you'll get. My sense with Benson was that he was aiming for a feel that was similar to someone like Stanley Turrentine -- swinging, but also rooted in an earthy R&B feel, that works very well for hard bop. Once you have the technique down, it is (relatively) easy to get eighth note lines going that feel very grounded and in the pocket. It also works very well for a lot of typical jazz licks, where there's a tendency to use an arpeggio or seventh chord going up and a scale line going down. But there are some lines that really feel awkward using that technique.

Economy picking feels very effortless and it's easy to get a nice legato feel, but it's harder to really dig in and sit in the pocket -- there's always a tendency to rush or "blur" through it without a lot of accents or "pop" to your lines. It's not impossible, of course, but it's something you'll have to pay extra close attention to.

There's also no rule that you can't mix and match. I started out as an economy picker (nobody taught me anything about picking when I first started, and it just seemed like the logical thing to do -- the idea of strict alternate picking never even crossed my mind). Later, I picked up more traditional Benson rest-stroke picking. Took some time, but now I can basically switch between them as needed. It's nice to have both in your bag.

Thanks ! Yes I’ve noticed accents when picking up doing this are more difficult to do than down and need to work more on my articulation with my control over accents (with some of Miles ‘ picking exercises from his book). I like the idea of doing both alternate and economy as needed too depending on my needs.

Do you think while economy picking with this grip you can still do rest strokes on the down strokes or do I need to change this to make the angle of doing economy picking easier on upstrokes ?