SAX: Trying to sound more like a sax.

[pamosmusic]

I'm not sure why Lionel's post was controversial.

• If you need the rest of the band to keep you from getting lost, you don't know the tune.

This is obviously true, but I suppose Lionel said that. It sounds like he was saying that it's helpful to have a band, which seems right.

• The rest of the band is not there to embellish your solos. They provide context for your solos, which should fit with, relate to, or otherwise complement the music.

Is this true, exactly? The band is there to provide context for the solos, but also to embellish them. I wouldn't use the word "embellish" ... complement, maybe ... but we're talking about the same thing here. The accompanists provide something that the soloist doesn't.

• If you "need" nobody while soloing, you should either play unaccomplanied or find a band willing to lay out when you solo. Good luck with that.

I'm not sure why this is something that needs to be said. Didn't we already establish that a person shouldn't need the band to get through their solo?

• Using a common lead sheet, chord chart, etc can keep everyone on the same changes, especially when there are multiple commonly played versions of a tune and / or the band is unrehearsed.

• True, but also reading takes up bandwidth, so all other things being equal, I would certainly consider it easier to listen and participate when you're not also reading. I pretty strongly feel that I'd rather go to a session and play Another You four times than play hipper tunes that no one knows, and where everyone is reading.

[ruger9]

To move the discussion to something specific: Am I alone in hearing something hornlike in the playing here. Both in the phrasing, the slipping in and out of notes, the dynamics and the time, as well as the tone.

I hear it. Volume swells aside (which really helps it sound more horn-like), his phrasing also isn't "typical" guitar phrasing... except in fusion circles, which is kind of what that is.

[ragman1]

Guy -

I've just looked through the whole 4 pages of this and basically the question's been answered at face value. But no one has apparently had my instant reaction which was:

Why do you want to sound like a sax when you play guitar?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I pretty strongly feel that I'd rather go to a session and play Another You four times than play hipper tunes that no one knows, and where everyone is reading.

I generally agree, but it depends on who's playing and how cool the tune is. I love it when people call cool tunes I rarely play, and sometimes one or more of us need the chart to remember a bridge etc that we haven't played in a long time. A lot of players at most jams can't play as well while reading, but there are many who can.

We're lucky enough to have a few jams with seriously great players in the house bands. For example, the Manyunk Brewing Company's Tuesday night jazz jam here in Philly is run by Kenny Davis on bass and Jim Holton on keys. They're seriously great players who read many tunes from their phones, and you'd never know if you didn't see it happening.

[docsteve]

I had the good luck to sit in with nevershouldhavesoldit in Philadelphia, and he and his mate read a tune off their phones and played it better than my band at home with whom I rehearsed it for a couple of months.


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[docsteve]

Well, that's another topic.
When you are soloing, ones who are comping are a kind of help, they play the structure and you're not lost.
Once you know how things work you don't need their help, they just have to embellish your solo. That can't be done if everyone is looking at a Real Book, a tablet or kind of.
In fact you need nobody when you are improvising.

Stupid me. I was under the impression that jazz was some sort of collective action, where everybody takes part in the creation of music.


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[pamosmusic]

Stupid me. I was under the impression that jazz was some sort of collective action, where everybody takes part in the creation of music.


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Not to be a total tool here, but we’ve all heard of “solo jazz guitar”, no?

Sorry. I’m just really not sure why this particular post seems to have inspired this level of snark.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s saying that when you’re starting out, a band really helps you follow along in a song and then later on you don’t need the band as a crutch, but rather as a participant.

Maybe that’s not obvious in the initial post in question, but I’ve generally find this sort of thing is more interesting when I read people’s posts fairly charitably.

Stupid me?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Not to be a total tool here, but we’ve all heard of “solo jazz guitar”, no? Sorry. I’m just really not sure why this particular post seems to have inspired this level of snark. I think it’s pretty clear he’s saying that when you’re starting out, a band really helps you follow along in a song and then later on you don’t need the band as a crutch, but rather as a participant. Maybe that’s not obvious in the initial post in question, but I’ve generally find this sort of thing is more interesting when I read people’s posts fairly charitably.

I don't normally take umbrage at many posts, and I try to share your charitable approach. But these comments about soloing come in the context of a series of similarly self-righteous pronouncements that can only serve to misdirect those trying to learn and improve. Statements like "Once you know how things work you don't need their help" and "In fact you need nobody when you are improvising" suggest nothing more than a combination of naïvete & hubris to me. They're not helpful to anyone working hard to be a better player and aquit himself or herself well at jam sessions.

My point about playing solo was simply that anyone who thinks that "you need nobody when you are improvising" should be playing solo. That attitude doesn't work well in ensemble playing. I did not see or sense that those comments were prefaced with "when you're starting out". Even if they were, teaching someone to rely on the rest of the band to keep him or her in key and on time in a song is hardly a well accepted teaching method. Most would suggest learning the tune well before trying to play it. And for those who decry reading a chart whle playing, I'd point out that trying to listen for cues from other players is at least as offputting and hardly conducive to fluent soloing.

I'll try to be more charitable, but I don't like to see bad advice given to others as gospel. I really do appreciate your input!

[Lionelsax]

"Once you know how things work you don't need their help" and "In fact you need nobody when you are improvising" suggest nothing more than a combination of naïvete & hubris to me. They're not helpful to anyone working hard to be a better player and aquit himself or herself well at jam sessions.

My point about playing solo was simply that anyone who thinks that "you need nobody when you are improvising" should be playing solo. That attitude doesn't work well in ensemble playing.

Knowing how it works is like knowing your part in an ensemble.
I'm sorry but things work like this if you need others to improvise on a tune...
You didn't understand what I meant.

[GuyBoden]

Guy -

Why do you want to sound like a sax when you play guitar?

Because, I've always preferred the sound of a Sax than the sound of a guitar, especially for single note playing.

There are lots of reasons why I didn't learn Sax when I was young, but I feel it's too late to change now anyway, I'm aged in my 60's and have been playing guitar since I was 14, so I'm sticking with the instrument I know best.

[Josejzz]

Hello!

Here I share you my transcription of a great standard, Nancy with the laughing face, this version is recorded by Cannonball Adderley.

I think that trying to sound as a saxo is always pretty hard, when I start working on transcriptions, I spend a lot of time just hearing the color of notes to search if I should play the notes on the first string, second one or other one. The color of each note will be always different but is related to the phrase, arpeggios, scales, etc.
Maybe using slurs, hammers, crossing strings, sweep picking or even other kind of techniques should be used but maybe thinking always as a tool to be closer to the saxo phrasing (we should accept that there always be a few things that will not fit to the guitar...)

[Josejzz]

Here is an other solo with saxo, recorded by the husband of Stacey Kent

Sometimes I get worried about the sound, I always try to think about getting a natural phrasing and trying to respect the color. But... I've being experimenting with the gear and sadly I've founded that we don't get the same color or same sound with a tube amp or transistor or even the kind of pickup P90 or Humbucker...

I wish I could get an old fender tube amp or even an old polytone. Right now I'm playing with a DV Mark Little jazz and a Henriksen Bud Six that I borrowed from friends, the Bud Six is really amazing!

I wish you a nice week!

Jose

[GuyBoden]

OP here, thanks for all the replies, I'm making steady progress using a midi guitar sax vst plugin.

It's not sax, but I like it.

I might post a quick short video in the near future.

[voxo]

heroic move...only takes me a minute to plug guitar into a guitar interface and Jam Origin..all the VST synths at your service...and latency is good too...

[GuyBoden]

Short video, I'm getting to be a bit more Sax(ish), here's a quick lick.

I think more legato and slurring is needed.

Too much reverb?

Criticism welcome, please.