-
New video in no way inspired by JGO thread honest
-
01-25-2024 01:09 PM
-
This reminds me of a line of Nelson Faria that I've been practising (along with the whole solo) where it didn't make sense to use my pinky, but rather use a few slides with the other fingers...
All points taken, I think I've conditioned myself to feel a bit limited if I ignore my pinky.
-
One big subtweet.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Oh definitely a valid technique. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you're a Charlie Christian/Wes/Benson acolyte, playing with three fingers is easier. If that's the sound you're going for, any teacher that tells you that you must use your fourth finger is doing you a disservice.
An exercise I would encourage anyone to do: play your normal stuff, but try to eliminate any "third finger to fourth finger" movement in your left hand.
For example, if you're playing C, D, and Eb all on one string, use fingers 1, 2 and 3 instead of 1, 3 and 4. Going from 2 to 4 is perfectly fine (as in C, Db, Eb on one string) and 1 to 4 is totally fine (although I would also encourage people to try replacing minor thirds on one string with 1 and 3 instead of 1 and 4).
It's going to feel weird at first. And there are certain ideas that are going to be very hard or impossible to play that way, like 3 note per string diminished scales where you're alternating (1, 2, 4) and (1, 2, 3) every string.
But what I've found with a lot of my students is that they're surprised how much better 1, 2, 3 feels for many ideas. The fact that your third and fourth finger share a tendon just makes it very awkward, and instead of trying to fight it, just avoid it as much as you can. I know personally the more I can avoid it, the less pain I have and the faster I can play.
-
Well my Holdsworth video isn’t ready yet so l decided to remake my beard video, seemed relatively low effort. The editing was fun tho. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
The thread reminded me of that old video and then I watched it and thought ‘oh dear’
I asked my subscribers what they thought of rehashed content and they were surprisingly positive. This kind of takes a bit of pressure off and I feel I’ve done loads of videos that were conceptually good but not executed well and/or watched by many.
I am the George Lucas of small Jazz Guitar YouTube channels.
-
Lighting is really good now, also the dark pullover gives a good contrast to your face and hands. Is the low resolution in the first cut on purpose? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
EDIT: Content is great, now that I finally trained my pinky LOL ...
-
Yeah that arpeggio example was especially interesting. Gives an idea of how the heck Django could get around.
Like you Christian, I visualize the fretboard in octaves more than positions. This has made me more of a diagonal player these days, which I really like.
Yet I'm still very much a four finger player, because I have small hands. (Yes I even use my pinky for slides/shifts.) But the three finger style is such a natural for diagonal playing, so I'm thinking I need to experiment with hand rotation to see what extra reach I can get out of that ring finger.
-
nope! Just watched it at 1080p and yes it drops a little in that cut. Not sure why, must be an artefact of either rendering or upload. Ah well…. Originally Posted by Bop Head
-
I agree ,
in fact i can’t really play
the ‘correct’ way very well
i think I got to it from watching and trying to play like Jimi when i was a kid and it kinda stuck
there are advantages and disadvantages to it (like everything)
your teaching videos are great
BTW
-
I always wanted to write a song called I Wish I Could Shimmy Like Jimi. He had huge hands and a very long thumb. Which reminds me of Keith Richards realizing how huge Chuck Berry's hands were compared to his own when meeting the latter in person for the the very first time. Originally Posted by pingu
Last edited by Bop Head; 01-26-2024 at 01:54 AM.
-
I really like a lot of the great 3 finger players, but some early classical training forced the use of the pinky, so it stuck...
No regrets, I can kinda do a 4 finger version of a lot of 3 finger solos (ok, doesn't sound quite as "strong"), but there's no way a 3 fingered guy could (or would even want to?
) do the things I torture my pinky into doing!
-
Pretty sure this was it with me too. Those Segovia scale position jumps die hard. Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
yes, i agree, when I'm practicing and consciously deciding to only use 3 fingers the phrasing is more natural. But I don't remember when and by who, but I was pushed to use the pinky when playing scales and it stuck now. So the main question, is it worth it to re-learn? I can do it possibly, I re-learned and switched from the classical position thumb under the neck to thumb over the neck , because it was killing my wrist playing chords. Makes me think that concept 'learn the Classical guitar first and then you can play everything' is total BS. But that's what everyone was telling me when I was a kid ( in Russia). Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So anyone tried to switch, how long would it take? And what's the drawback of it, if any?
-
I think the point I was trying to make that if you position your hand the way those guys do the pinky ends up being less useful as a natural result. Originally Posted by princeplanet
I really like a lot of the great 3 finger players, but some early classical training forced the use of the pinky, so it stuck...
No regrets, I can kinda do a 4 finger version of a lot of 3 finger solos (ok, doesn't sound quite as "strong"), but there's no way a 3 fingered guy could (or would even want to?) do the things I torture my pinky into doing!
I find it quite hard to adapt. But it is fun to practice that way.
-
Yeah, I think I get it. Still, I like a lot of chromaticism, and lotsa chromatic enclosures etc. There is just no way I could do what I've taught my 4 fingers to do using only 3. Certainly not cleanly, or up to speed, which is ironic I suppose, because clean and fast is what you expect using 3 fingers! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Depends what you play of course. Now, where's that AH video? ...
-
I don’t think I ever thought about this much, or had any problem with it. I learned classical guitar first so started with 4 fingers and thumb behind, etc. A few years after that I got an electric guitar and taught myself rock/blues with the 3 finger approach, bending strings, thumb over, etc. But I was still having classical lessons so I just kept switching between the 2 approaches as required.
When I learned jazz, I just combined both methods without really thinking about it, looking at my videos I think that’s still what I do.
-
I spent a lot of time with spider drills etc so I could use all four fingers with economy of motion and some degree of independence. I don't want to throw all that away now! Seriously, I think I'd struggle to change back to three fingers after all this time. I've only just started experimenting more with shifting around while playing lines, inspired at least in part by some of Jack Zucker's videos. For me, being locked into a particular position was/is less about using four fingers and more about learning scales and arpeggios 'in position'. As my fretboard knowledge slowly grows, I'm finding I can make horizontal connections more quickly and intuitively.
-
Playing with three fingers can be quite limiting, at least it was for me.
I began playing guitar in kind of a bluesy way (three fingers), then some time after I got a bit more serious about music and jazz and forced myself to learn to use my pinky. It was good for my playing, I can play faster and cleaner now. Still a little weak finger, but it is useful.
Apparently it is not limiting for some players, so it may not exist a definitive general answer for this conundrum.
Anyway, not totally related, but I sometimes get rid of the pick and use my fingers for soloing, then I can’t play that fast and that forces me to play simpler melodies, but more in time, more “melodic” and more aware. So my general opinion is good technique is obviously good and neccesary, but the crucial thing is musicality. So if one is comfortable with whatever way of using the instrument and it works, who cares.
-
ah yes the exact opposite. It is in the works. There will actually be a number of Allan videos most likely.Now, where's that AH video? ...
-
Well you wouldn’t want to play Bach that way… actually I think I made the case I wanted to make in the video that four fingers has issues and limitations. Lage Lunds approach is interesting. Legit left hand, avoidance of the pinky except for direction changes, like piano. Originally Posted by LeChuck
Even if one doesn’t adopt the old “grab and whack” it could spur thought about how shifts are made and what is most ergonomic.
I can’t play everything I play normally with three fingers but this may not in fact be a bad thing haha.I began playing guitar in kind of a bluesy way (three fingers), then some time after I got a bit more serious about music and jazz and forced myself to learn to use my pinky. It was good for my playing, I can play faster and cleaner now. Still a little weak finger, but it is useful.
Apparently it is not limiting for some players, so it may not exist a definitive general answer for this conundrum.
Anyway, not totally related, but I sometimes get rid of the pick and use my fingers for soloing, then I can’t play that fast and that forces me to play simpler melodies, but more in time, more “melodic” and more aware. So my general opinion is good technique is obviously good and neccesary, but the crucial thing is musicality. So if one is comfortable with whatever way of using the instrument and it works, who cares.
otoh I think I probably could with work. The three fingered thing gets a lot of bad press, and yet here is a veritable pantheon of jazz masters using it. You may not want to go down that route yourself, but it is interesting to play around with .
-
None Too Soon. I'm looking forward to hearing your analysis, most others have approached it from a mainly Rock perspective. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
I don’t find that using the ‘3 fingers posture’ precludes extensive use of the 4th finger. Looking at my videos and also those of Dutchbopper (who doesn’t post here now, but he’s still on youtube), he and I both appear to use a very similar left hand approach, namely thumb mostly over, hand turned to the left, plenty of slurring and shifting, and yet the 4th finger is still being used a lot, every few notes or so.
I just don’t see it as an issue really. I certainly don’t have large hands or long fingers, so that's not a factor.
-
Thats why I felt the need Originally Posted by GuyBoden
None Too Soon. I'm looking forward to hearing your analysis, most others have approached it from a mainly Rock perspective.
-
Great video - thanks!
-
Min 4:00 in the OP video illustrates precisely why the 4th finger is required to play a major arp cleanly and evenly. IMO, etc.
By the way, being a self-taught, proficient teen (rock-)blues player, it never occured to me not to use my pinky when needed (which was actually quite a lot). Where did this idea come from?
Reply With Quote
How is the Steve Howe 175?
Today, 05:54 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos