How much of a "reach" is too big?

[dconeill]

Defining my terms first:
"Span" = the number of strings spanned by a player fingering a chord. E.g., the C7 chord, pitches C E Bb C on the 5th through 2nd strings, has a span of 4.
"Reach" = the number of frets covered by fingers PIMA. E.g., the C7 chord on frets 1 through 3 has a reach of 3.

In my case, I can finger chords with a reach of 3, and usually with a reach of 4 (depending on whether I took my vitamins that day). I find reaches of 6 and more to be physically unusable, and most fingerings with reaches of 5 are unusable as well. That's my experience, but I'm a limited player.

Some players like John Stowell and certain classical guitarists seem to be able to handle reaches of 5 and more routinely.

This is entirely a mechanical question; I don't have any particular musical purpose in mind at the moment.

So finally, my question: how much of a "reach" is usable in your experience? That is, what is reasonable to strive for?

[mr. beaumont]

I can do a 5 fret span "reach forward" for like, say a major 7 voicing like this -- 3xx777 quite easily.

"Reach backs" a la Johnny Smith chords are much tougher for me, gotta get the neck into classical position to get a 5 fret stretch. Not generally practical.

Here's what I mean by Johnny Smith chords

[Doug B]

4 fret reach for me.

[sgosnell]

It's different for everyone. Pasquale Grasso has a far bigger span than I do. From what I see in videos, his pinkie may be longer than my middle finger. Hand size matters for this. I just reach what I can, and play simpler chords.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

The frets get closer are you go up the neck, eh?

This F(add2) chord is how I check to see if muh left hand is working, span'n'reach: 135211

[nyc chaz]

I don't have large hands and they are age compomised to say the least but one of my warmups every time i play is 13x255 moving it up and then down the neck.Anything beyond that has always been beyond me unless it's up higher on the neck.

[AllanAllen]

I just checked I can do xx6541 but I can’t get that Fadd2 clean. I wouldn’t do either on stage.

[Christian Miller]

Longest so far - C 8th fret on the low E up to high G on the 15th fret of the high E. Bloody two part inventions.

[wolflen]

its not only the stretch but being able to play the notes clean..and then in some kind of tempo

there are some chords you will find in a Ted Greene or Howard Roberts book that look impossible to form
but with practice it can be done..then the question is why do you want/need to be able to play such a chord.

I can do six fret chords with some work..five fret chords depending on the fingering can be done in tempo

I learned some tricks from Greene and Roberts on how to prepare for such demanding chords

[Peter C]

"how much of a "reach" is usable in your experience?"

In a tune I made up, I play an Fmaj7 like the Gmaj7 Mr Beaumont (Jeff) posted but with the 5th and octave added (133555) and will land on that cleanly maybe 80% of the time, but that's the thing: it's going to depend on what comes before and after the chord in question, and how quickly you need to change to/from it.

I don't (can't) comfortably play any chords requiring than a one fret separation between my ring and middle fingers, but a 3 fret separation between ring finger and pinky is fine. I think the former has something to do with a shared muscle, or is it just me?


"This F(add2) chord is how I check to see if muh left hand is working, span'n'reach: 135211"

Yes, but I'd probably want to stop and have a cup of coffee after holding that mofo down for any more than 5 seconds. Again, changing to it cleanly is going to require some planning in advance, like "oh shit, here it comes". Same goes for 13x255, and xx6541 (nice sounding chord!)


"C 8th fret on the low E up to high G on the 15th fret of the high E"

I mean, yes, and if you do it holding the guitar à la John Stowell, it's a lot more comfortable. Just figuring out what I would do with that....

[pamosmusic]

Man I can’t stretch at all.

Similar to Jeff on the back vs forward stretches though. I can get first to fourth frets down between my first and second fingers but damned if I can get ninth to eleventh or something between my third and fourth.

But for real … I honestly kind of hate drop 2s because so many of the voicings are impractical for me. I can play them all, but readily enough for me to want to use them. Shell voicings and Segovia style position shifts for me, all day baby.

[bediles]

FWIW, you can't really too much if your fingers are curved especially from the MCP but also from the PIP.

There's always moving the headstock away from your body so that it makes and X with your legs so you can take advantage of the scissoring space of your fingers without stretching (ha don't know what to call it).

[rpjazzguitar]

I can play first and sixth strings together. As a practical matter, it's usually with a barre, although there are exceptions.

I can stretch first to fourth. Higher up the neck I can stretch 5.

[Oscar67]

its not only the stretch but being able to play the notes clean..and then in some kind of tempo

Exactly! And on top of that there’s dexterity. Eric Johnson can play chords that’s don’t require much reach but do require almost inhuman dexterity, such as some really complex partial-bar chords.

[supersoul]

I use my thumb a lot, which gives me more reach and also more strength, dexterity as far as moving chord tones around.

[Peter C]

I don't know about inhuman dexterity, but it would be great to land reliably on the totally non-stretch X02413 voicing of Am9 YMMV

[spencer096]

i spent a ton of time in college studying how holdsworth got around the fretboard, and got pretty used to using a "stock position" with an extra fret on each side (if that makes sense). kinda went this way naturally because at the time i was stuck in vertical positions and found it easier to work horizontally thinking in 6 fret chunks instead of 4 fret chunks. i do have relatively big hands tho, which makes this easier...using the NFL combine measuring system, my left hand span is over 9 1/4".

[Lionelsax]

Born To Be Wild in the original key, that's my limit.

[mr. beaumont]

I don't know about inhuman dexterity, but it would be great to land reliably on the totally non-stretch X02413 voicing of Am9 YMMV

Right?

[Jim Soloway]

I can do 5-x-5-6-7-10 with a barre at the 5th fret (and before anyone asks why would I, it's because it sounds good following 5-x-5-6-7-9). I was also just playing 9-x-9-10-10-12 and without really thinking about it added the 15th fret on the high E string while letting the rest of the chord ring so it ended up as 9-x-9-10-10-15

[pingu]

1292408[/URL]]I don't know about inhuman dexterity, but it would be great to land reliably on the totally non-stretch X02413 voicing of Am9 YMMV

yes I’m after that too !
pretty voicing

[vintagelove]

A ii V like


Cfea - 10 10 5 5
bfeb ab - 9 10 4 4


Is as crazy as I get. Beyond that it's not reliable or takes too long to be practical.

[pauln]

Defining my terms first:
"Span" = the number of strings spanned by a player fingering a chord. E.g., the C7 chord, pitches C E Bb C on the 5th through 2nd strings, has a span of 4.
"Reach" = the number of frets covered by fingers PIMA. E.g., the C7 chord on frets 1 through 3 has a reach of 3.

In my case, I can finger chords with a reach of 3, and usually with a reach of 4 (depending on whether I took my vitamins that day). I find reaches of 6 and more to be physically unusable, and most fingerings with reaches of 5 are unusable as well. That's my experience, but I'm a limited player.

Some players like John Stowell and certain classical guitarists seem to be able to handle reaches of 5 and more routinely.

This is entirely a mechanical question; I don't have any particular musical purpose in mind at the moment.

So finally, my question: how much of a "reach" is usable in your experience? That is, what is reasonable to strive for?

Yes, it is entirely mechanical, until you apply musical purposes.

Both "span" and "reach" are potentially maximized when the fingers' neutral position has them perpendicular to the finger board (so parallel to the frets) as in the classical form. You can see this geometrically; the shortest span across the strings is a line parallel to the frets, and the widest reach spreading the fingers is in a line perpendicular to the frets (parallel to the finger board).

A lot of guitarists don't approach the classical guitar form but rather more approach the classical violin form - slanting their fingers to point "up the neck" meaning the back knuckle of their fourth finger is held away from the neck (the violin has a much shorter scale length, narrower finger board width, and greater musical interval between the strings). A lot also do not keep their thumb behind the neck, and a lot only use three fingers for lines with considerably less facility in their fourth finger, which may extend to chords.

The standard tuned guitar finger board is pretty much "designed" to play with a 5 fret reach (away from the nut), but what's reasonable to strive for, short of altering your form, is the most reach you can reliably execute (sounds good, always works, doesn't hurt you), so the answer may be variable depending on the chords you play - some long reach chords may be fine, but others not even that long may be problematic. Some guitarists can virtually extend their reach by voicing chords without roots, or transposing position up the neck, or other techniques (if they don't impair the sound).