What do you guys work on when working technique?

[pamosmusic]

I'm not terribly creative with my rhythm either but I got the book 'Modern Reading Text in 4/4' by drummer Louis Bellson.

Ah yes, the Bellson.

Skip the middle man. I bet Doug Raney’s got some good rhythms.

[jazznylon]

Ah yes, the Bellson.

Skip the middle man. I bet Doug Raney’s got some good rhythms.

For sure!

[RickyHolden]

I don't really practice technique as such, its more a case of this:

- find a solo / lick to learn...
- oh, thats a bit tricky I cant play that lick too well
- practice it over and over until fingers have got it under control

..... technique improved.

E.g. at the mo I'm working on something with a descending arpeggio across the top 5 strings, bit tricky on the picking, a 'reverse sweep' basically.... but its got some scale notes in also....Its improving and the picking technique along with it.

Yes, I'm not dissing people who wanna play scales in all 12 keys etc, in 3rds, 4th etc, all that technical drill stuff... I wont argue that it sounds like a good way to get ur chops stronger.
Just that I seem to be making good progress by using actual music to challenge and improve my technique.

[jazznylon]

I don't really practice technique as such, its more a case of this:

- find a solo / lick to learn...
- oh, thats a bit tricky I cant play that lick too well
- practice it over and over until fingers have got it under control

..... technique improved.

E.g. at the mo I'm working on something with a descending arpeggio across the top 5 strings, bit tricky on the picking, a 'reverse sweep' basically.... but its got some scale notes in also....Its improving and the picking technique along with it.

Yes, I'm not dissing people who wanna play scales in all 12 keys etc, in 3rds, 4th etc, all that technical drill stuff... I wont argue that it sounds like a good way to get ur chops stronger.
Just that I seem to be making good progress by using actual music to challenge and improve my technique.

Yeah its a valid way to go about it. There's plenty of challenging technical things to be found in music anyways. I always find playing alongside tough solos/heads recordings to be pretty difficult as there's this pressure to keep up and do everything perfectly in time. Its easy to mess up, but one has to keep pushing through anyways

[RickyHolden]

Yeah its a valid way to go about it. There's plenty of challenging technical things to be found in music anyways. I always find playing alongside tough solos/heads recordings to be pretty difficult as there's this pressure to keep up and do everything perfectly in time. Its easy to mess up, but one has to keep pushing through anyways

trying to keep up with recorded stuff makes me tense up and mess it up, I tend to instead try to play it myself over a backing track of the same tune, use ireal pro, start slower, get it faster over time.

Its extremely satisfying to see techniques coming together in this way, and then also good to make my own stuff up that I could have done before without the new found fluidity.

[AllanAllen]

I don't really practice technique as such, its more a case of this:

- find a solo / lick to learn...
- oh, thats a bit tricky I cant play that lick too well
- practice it over and over until fingers have got it under control

..... technique improved.

E.g. at the mo I'm working on something with a descending arpeggio across the top 5 strings, bit tricky on the picking, a 'reverse sweep' basically.... but its got some scale notes in also....Its improving and the picking technique along with it.

Yes, I'm not dissing people who wanna play scales in all 12 keys etc, in 3rds, 4th etc, all that technical drill stuff... I wont argue that it sounds like a good way to get ur chops stronger.
Just that I seem to be making good progress by using actual music to challenge and improve my technique.

For me the “12 keys, 3rds etc” part makes grabbing licks easier. I think the scale and arpeggio exercises are building up my ear too. So in a way, I’m doing it opposite of you.

[rpjazzguitar]

Whack-A-Mole.

I practice the Mole Du Jour.

Lately, it's been trying to add more non-diatonic elements to my soloing.

Prepping tunes for gigs.

I play in a couple of big bands to keep reading in shape.

Adding more chordal movement into my comping.

Whatever didn't work the last time I picked up the guitar.

Mole Du Jour.

[jazznylon]

Whack-A-Mole.

I practice the Mole Du Jour.

Lately, it's been trying to add more non-diatonic elements to my soloing.

Prepping tunes for gigs.

I play in a couple of big bands to keep reading in shape.

Adding more chordal movement into my comping.

Whatever didn't work the last time I picked up the guitar.

Mole Du Jour.

Nice! I wish I have gigs, luckily a pianist I played with before covid started contacted me today and want to get together to jam at his studio. Hopefully it'll lead to getting gigs in the near future as he knows a few places. Gotta prepare the tunes until when the time comes

[pamosmusic]

Lately, it's been trying to add more non-diatonic elements to my soloing.

…

Adding more chordal movement into my comping.

I would love to hear a bit more about both of these. They’re both kind of evergreen Areas For Improvement for me.

[pamosmusic]

Lately, it's been trying to add more non-diatonic elements to my soloing.

…

Adding more chordal movement into my comping.

I would love to hear a bit more about both of these. They’re both kind of evergreen Areas For Improvement for me.

[rpjazzguitar]

I would love to hear a bit more about both of these. They’re both kind of evergreen Areas For Improvement for me.

With regard to non-diatonics:

Probably would be better coming from somebody who is good at it.

What I'm doing is singing every interval against tonic and dominant chord types.

Also, trying to figure out how to use half whole diminished in tunes. Which, at this early stage, is mostly trying to sing the notes against the chords.

This is based on the idea, with which others may disagree, to sing first and play later.

For chord patterns:

Reg's videos are valuable in this regard.

What I'm doing is taking simple songs and trying to find chord patterns that work. And, watching/listening to some videos where players put some movement into songs I know.
I just watched somebody do Wave with a lot of added harmonic texture.

All of this proceeds at a glacial pace.

[pamosmusic]

Probably would be better coming from somebody who is good at it.

Not the case as often as one might expect.

[Christian Miller]

Technique?

I’ve been sort of working on left hand articulation for a while now. Basically my little finger is a bad little piggie. So I practice fingering bop heads and lines and so on left hand only with a metronome.

Right hand articulation is moving towards more alternate it seems. I don’t have specific drill for this. Just practice lines. It’s more like a rhythm thing.

I’m also doing a little bit of legato stuff

The biggest technical challenge I like to give myself at the moment us working through the two part inventions at as much as possible, piano pitch. Seems to developing my hybrid picking and contrapuntal playing generally. A lot of problem solving involved. Also takes me to dusty parts of the neck.

[jazznylon]

Technique?

I’ve been sort of working on left hand articulation for a while now. Basically my little finger is a bad little piggie. So I practice fingering bop heads and lines and so on left hand only with a metronome.

Right hand articulation is moving towards more alternate it seems. I don’t have specific drill for this. Just practice lines. It’s more like a rhythm thing.

I’m also doing a little bit of legato stuff

The biggest technical challenge I like to give myself at the moment us working through the two part inventions at as much as possible, piano pitch. Seems to developing my hybrid picking and contrapuntal playing generally. A lot of problem solving involved. Also takes me to dusty parts of the neck.

Alternate picking eh? I should probably work on always alternating my rest strokes as to not annoy potential teachers. Thing is is when I descend to the next adjacent string I repeat the index finger even if it was the finger I just played before. Its 'improper' technique but apparently Pepe Romero had great success with it so I'm in good hands. The reasoning as to why it doesn't work supposedly is that the index finger lands on the flesh when repeated to the next string causing a different tone, but somehow I'm able to make it so that I get the same tone anyways as I would with always alternating so yeah (don't ask me how I did that I don't know either lol).

I can't reach the same high speeds yet if I always alternate as it takes planning at the moment and more paying attention to the right hand. But I do alternate (or at least try to) if I had to skip to a non-adjacent string down below. Yeah technique... always a complicated thing (or simple, depends on how you look at it).

[RickyHolden]

Technique?

I’ve been sort of working on left hand articulation for a while now. Basically my little finger is a bad little piggie. So I practice fingering bop heads and lines and so on left hand only with a metronome.

Right hand articulation is moving towards more alternate it seems. I don’t have specific drill for this. Just practice lines. It’s more like a rhythm thing.

I’m also doing a little bit of legato stuff

The biggest technical challenge I like to give myself at the moment us working through the two part inventions at as much as possible, piano pitch. Seems to developing my hybrid picking and contrapuntal playing generally. A lot of problem solving involved. Also takes me to dusty parts of the neck.

Good but maybe unorthodox way to get the little finger going..... do blues bends with it use it to knock out some Hendrix licks. Yes, they might not be ur style of music but getting a full tone bend with the pinkie on the top 2 string with some medium to heavy strings I think works wonders for its overall strength and coordination. Its gonna hurt after a few goes if u don't do it btw, this is basically strength development.

I will not claim to be a technically excellent guitarist, functional and reasonable yes.
But I will claim to have a really good pinkie, I use it all the time for stuff that most players I see stretch their 3rd finger for.

[supersoul]

Technique?

I’ve been sort of working on left hand articulation for a while now. Basically my little finger is a bad little piggie. So I practice fingering bop heads and lines and so on left hand only with a metronome.

I’m also doing a little bit of legato stuff

I went through a period of using just my thumb for picking. I ended up developing my left hand hammer on/pull off legato to the point of where I could play Donna Lee at full speed. It was often the matter of refingering the phrases so that the thumb would just provide the accents.

Double bass players often will use their pinky and third together for strength. I adapted that for my legato technique, as it can give more power if needed.

[jazznylon]

I received my 10 string back thankfully and the problem is fixed. I'll probably make a video demonstrating (or attempting) the 400 bpm eigth note thing but with the major scale (4 octaves plus 7th) so you guys can critique. The low 4 bass tuning pegs are very hard to turn however so I can't get this darn thing tuned appropriatedly. Its a problem I've had for a while but forgot to realize it until now since the strings are out of tune due to the repair. So tommorow my Dad will replace them with new tuning pegs. Hopefully I don't embarass myself again as its been a few days without working on scales utilizing the full range of the neck


But yeah recently in the meantime I've been working on Doug Raney's solo for Mr. P.C on the top 6 strings. Thanks to the Rod Harris video that djg sent I realized I missed a couple of notes here and there as I could hear it a bit more clearly. Sometimes its hard to hear whats actually going on in the original recording as its sometimes not clear whats actually going on. So its always good to look for multiple sources

[pamosmusic]

Alternate picking eh? I should probably work on always alternating my rest strokes as to not annoy potential teachers. Thing is is when I descend to the next adjacent string I repeat the index finger even if it was the finger I just played before. Its 'improper' technique but apparently Pepe Romero had great success with it so I'm in good hands. The reasoning as to why it doesn't work supposedly is that the index finger lands on the flesh when repeated to the next string causing a different tone, but somehow I'm able to make it so that I get the same tone anyways as I would with always alternating so yeah (don't ask me how I did that I don't know either lol).

I can't reach the same high speeds yet if I always alternate as it takes planning at the moment and more paying attention to the right hand. But I do alternate (or at least try to) if I had to skip to a non-adjacent string down below. Yeah technique... always a complicated thing (or simple, depends on how you look at it).

Oh man. You should spend some time alternating. I think you’d get a lot of pay-off in terms of evenness *and* speed.

You quoted Segovia above about those scales but the maestro would roll over in his grave if you weren’t alternating.

He did all his scales without stopping using im, mi, ma, am, ia, ai, and imam

The reason for doing both im and mi, and the other pairs is that each time you play, you flip where the string crossing happens. In fingerstyle, the challenge is when you cross strings against the natural orientation of your fingers. For example when you play the B string with your middle finger and then have to cross your index over it to get the high E. Or Vice versa when descending. So those right hand fingerings are organized carefully to get you maximum right hand practice when you’re playing the scales.

And for almost (almost — I said almost, don’t at me JGO) everyone, alternating will be faster in the long run.

The first reason is that muscle memory loves patterns. When you’re choosing fingerings, it sometimes makes sense to choose a less efficient fingering in the micro, when it keeps a consistent pattern going on a bigger scale. Like maybe you could avoid an awkward string crossing by throwing in an a finger, but you’re going to be way more likely to trip over that oddball a finger. Keeping the im alternating going might be easier on the muscle memory, even with an awkward string crossing now and again.

The other reason is that it actually takes way less, planning. If I ask you how you’re going to finger that scale, your answer is going to be “which one? What position? How?” My answer will be “I’m going to alternate.” So I don’t really have to plan scale runs at all unless they’re super weird. Take a look at videos of Dan Wilson or Cecil Alexander where they talk about economy picking. They’ve had to organize their entire technique around those economy string crossings. They sound awesome and can play fast, but not because they have to do less planning. They do way way more.

[pamosmusic]

For what it’s worth, in his scale manual, Segovia refers specifically to “the patient study of scales.”

More “slowly and vigorously at first” and more “lightly and rapidly later.”

[jazznylon]

Oh man. You should spend some time alternating. I think you’d get a lot of pay-off in terms of evenness *and* speed.

You quoted Segovia above about those scales but the maestro would roll over in his grave if you weren’t alternating.

He did all his scales without stopping using im, mi, ma, am, ia, ai, and imam

The reason for doing both im and mi, and the other pairs is that each time you play, you flip where the string crossing happens. In fingerstyle, the challenge is when you cross strings against the natural orientation of your fingers. For example when you play the B string with your middle finger and then have to cross your index over it to get the high E. Or Vice versa when descending. So those right hand fingerings are organized carefully to get you maximum right hand practice when you’re playing the scales.

And for almost (almost — I said almost, don’t at me JGO) everyone, alternating will be faster in the long run.

The first reason is that muscle memory loves patterns. When you’re choosing fingerings, it sometimes makes sense to choose a less efficient fingering in the micro, when it keeps a consistent pattern going on a bigger scale. Like maybe you could avoid an awkward string crossing by throwing in an a finger, but you’re going to be way more likely to trip over that oddball a finger. Keeping the im alternating going might be easier on the muscle memory, even with an awkward string crossing now and again.

The other reason is that it actually takes way less, planning. If I ask you how you’re going to finger that scale, your answer is going to be “which one? What position? How?” My answer will be “I’m going to alternate.” So I don’t really have to plan scale runs at all unless they’re super weird. Take a look at videos of Dan Wilson or Cecil Alexander where they talk about economy picking. They’ve had to organize their entire technique around those economy string crossings. They sound awesome and can play fast, but not because they have to do less planning. They do way way more.

Ah okay I'll believe what you said then! Its probably going to take some time though since I'm already so used to how I play and stuff. Maybe 3 notes per string is helpful for this kind of stuff, idk. Don't know if I should hold off the video until way later

[jazznylon]

Actually now that I think about it when I use free strokes for scales I always alternate, it just feels natural that way. Though for rest strokes it just comes off as weird to me. Maybe in a week or 2 of diligent practice I may be able to dispel the weirdness of it. Though I gotta ask if one were to 'sweep' how would one do it? Would one always alternate or just rely on the index finger when going backwards? Because I use rest strokes for sweeping also

[pamosmusic]

Actually now that I think about it when I use free strokes for scales I always alternate, it just feels natural that way. Though for rest strokes it just comes off as weird to me. Maybe in a week or 2 of diligent practice I may be able to dispel the weirdness of it. Though I gotta ask if one were to 'sweep' how would one do it? Would one always alternate or just rely on the index finger when going backwards? Because I use rest strokes for sweeping also

Hard to know. This is where exploring those scales rather than running them up and down can be of help. Back to Allan’s scales in thirds, triads, whatever.

I spent a lot of (too much) time working through scales in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, sevenths, triads, inversions, quartals, inversions, arpeggios, inversions, ascending, descending, alternating, whatever. It’s useful stuff (and part of what I’m working on is actually using it all now) but it’s also really good to work through unusual patterns like that to see what fingerings work for you. Right and left hand.

You run into problems—what do I do when I have consecutive string crossings, same fret different string, string skips, etc—and you have to solve them. There’s no substitute for the exploration.

Patient. Slow. You’ll learn tons from playing scales in thirds. Stick with them for a week. Or a month. Or two.

[jazznylon]

Hard to know. This is where exploring those scales rather than running them up and down can be of help. Back to Allan’s scales in thirds, triads, whatever.

I spent a lot of (too much) time working through scales in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, sevenths, triads, inversions, quartals, inversions, arpeggios, inversions, ascending, descending, alternating, whatever. It’s useful stuff (and part of what I’m working on is actually using it all now) but it’s also really good to work through unusual patterns like that to see what fingerings work for you. Right and left hand.

You run into problems—what do I do when I have consecutive string crossings, same fret different string, string skips, etc—and you have to solve them. There’s no substitute for the exploration.

Patient. Slow. You’ll learn tons from playing scales in thirds. Stick with them for a week. Or a month. Or two.

Sounds good! Yeah I'll take my time, an hour a day doing this sort of stuff wouldn't hurt. Working on triads in basic scales would definitedly help with alternating right hand fingers.

[pamosmusic]

Also worth noting that quality of practice is going to outweigh the time spent every time.

[jazznylon]

Also worth noting that quality of practice is going to outweigh the time spent every time.

For sure! Supposedly a diminishing returns kind of thing after 4 hours of practice or heck even 2 hours. But I still like to believe there is benefit to practicing long hours particularly when it comes down to gaining comfort of ones own instrument. My main issue though is trying to stay awake lol since I'm trying to get used to sleeping 7 hours a day. I used to sleep around 12 hour at times and that is very unhealthy (or at least theres a lot correlation between long sleep and the body failing) so yeah I'm trying to avoid that. Around 2 times a day my brain gets so sleepy (around 11-12 am and 8-9 pm) but yeah I power through those somehow. Maybe its good to practice something that isn't so taxing on the brain during those sleepy periods but idk. Supposedly the guy who probably practiced the most out of all is a violinist, Pablo Sarasate who apparently practiced 14 hours a day for a total of 37 years which is frankly quite ridiculous. The funny thing is after through all of that that is when people finally call him a genius not sure if I believe it but it makes for an impressive story if true