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Bradley Green, an Australian guitarist, made "A Study of Backward Picking" three years ago. It was a video about his way into the technique most often associated with George Benson. Green picked it up from African American gospel players. (Dan Wilson, who started out playing gospel music, has said in his own videos that the technique was necessary for that style of music.)
Volume 1 is worth watching if this is new to you (or you feel you never got the hang of it and someone else's perspective might give you an aha! moment.)
Volume 2 casts a wider net and shows how backwards picking is used by players in other genres, including heavy metal, hard rock and blues. It also clears up a few things that viewers found confusing (or erroneous) in the first video.
Here is volume 1, "A study of Backward Picking."
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07-06-2023 09:07 PM
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Did Mr Wilson say why this technique was necessary for gospel music? Is it the sound it produces?
IIRC Tuck Andress used Carlos Santana as an example of a Benson picker way back in his seminal article on picking.
obviously an important figure here is Rodney Jones, who taught quite a few ‘backwards pickers’ in jazz including Miles Okazaki and Sheryl Bailey. A lot of others Benson, Rogers, Sebastian Giniaux gravitated to it via self teaching.
It is also possible to be a backwards picker but not a benson picker.
Tbh from the first few minutes I’ll probably pass up watching the video, but that’s not to say I think it’s a bad vid.
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I keep coming back to this technique because of the fact that Adam Rogers, with his (to me) wonderful tone and articulation, uses it.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
(Like Adam Rogers, I believe,) I play with a D'Andrea Pro-Plec. But that's not the whole story; I've practised with a Fender Thin - amps at gig volume - to achieve a light grip when using the Pro-Plec.
Love Bradley Green's videos.
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One thing I don't see him using in the video is rest strokes, which is a very important part of Benson picking. This seems to be a variation (I often play like that), but using rest strokes does make a difference in stability and speed.
Also it sounds different, as using a rest stroke starts to resemble the classical guitar apoyando movement because the string doesn't move towards the other strings, but towards the body of the guitar, so you get a deeper, bassier sound.
P.s. Watching the last video, he does talk about rest strokes. But the tricky part of using test strokes even in high speed..
Best part was watching all these metal players that use this technique, didn't even know it was so common. It gives me hope cause I always have problems muting when playing like that.
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@Alter I too tend to see Benson picking (and Wes thumb technique) as a subset of rest stoke picking. The way the pick is held is less important than the basic mechanic. OTOH the extreme edge picking seems to help with string crossing. I use both trad grip and backwards picking grip (I hesitate to say 'Benson') and I would say the latter is easier in some ways. I often unconsciously revert to it despite a conscious decision to focus on trad grip.
In my experience you can't consciously do anything at high speed including knowing whether or not you are using rest strokes. There's an element of letting go and trusting it. If it works, it works. According to Troy Grady a lot of players use rest strokes at speed even if they don't when playing slowly, and may not realise it.
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Dan said it was necessary to meet the demands of the music. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
It's here, starting around the 0:30 mark.
Later he talks about "surviving" at tempos north of 400 bpm, which he had to handle with Joey DeFrancesco and Christian McBride.
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These videos are bloated. Nobody watching this needs 4 minutes defining regular picking.
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The first one was made in support of an academic paper on the subject. In that context, it is a mistake to assume the reader / viewer is as well versed on the subject as you happen to be now. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
For the heck of it, a video of Bradley playing along with Benson's "The Cooker." He can play. (I admire the facility of this playing, but I don't enjoy the content as much as many do. I wish I had that skill but I wouldn't want to play like that if I did.)
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Well.... that just takes all the hot air out of my balloon. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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…and I always thought my picking technique is wrong
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So, he's picking off the back edge of the pick and not the leading edge? Am I grasping that right?
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The trailing edge makes the pick stroke, so the one nearer the bridge
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Thanks Christian. I couldn't see the hands close enough. The OP video brought up Wes who didn't use a pick at all so I was kinda confused. So Wes is basically playing off the back edge of this thumb.... I think I"m going to run some of this this evening and see how it works out with my thumbpick. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I think Wes was mentioned because he uses rest strokes. Sidetracking from Benson picking, Wes has also lots to be discovered if one looks at the way he plays. Most thumb players play with the side of the thumb, with the thumb facing towards the floor, but Wes plays with part of the face of the thumb, with the thumb facing towards the guitar.
This way, together with using reststrokes, he gets great stability and ease at playing. Also this way it's possible to play upstrokes, which is pretty difficult otherwise..
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No I wouldn’t say so. I think Wes just plays with the pad of the thumb, but he’s clearly making a rest stroke into the guitar body. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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(My use of bold.) Originally Posted by Alter
Thanks very much indeed for pointing out that crucial detail, which is one of two pointed out within the first thirty seconds of this short video (the second detail being the importance of playing 'very softly, very gently'):
Speaking for and about myself, and in the context of the backward picking technique, there are times when double-time flourishes are de rigueur, and nothing else will do. One consequence of having decided to only use the thumb when trying to 'play pretty' has been coming to terms with limited speed with the thumb, and using the pick when trying to 'play with attitude'. However, that bright line is now blurred -and that's a good thing.
The best thing is being able to produce consistently great tone, attack and articulation.
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Alessios really really good at thumb playing. Well at playing in general.
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I have been trying to convert my playing to the backwards technique as much as possible since I got into this post. It is definitely more precise and the articulation of the notes is much better as destinyT mentioned! I use my thumb also but with a thumbpick. I also use one finger pick that I upstroke the top couple of strings with so my upper lines are generally with my index but I can mix it up anywhere I need.
For me, there are definitely things I have to be more careful about or the thumb pick will fly off. It's not really happening during chording, especially partial or full strumming type stuff. Maybe I will be able to nail that down better as time passes but I have some doubts about the hand mechanics required to do it the way i play. I still have some time to invest in all of this. Maybe a couple more weeks.
I know guys are talking about rest strokes, with reference to lead lines I assume, but it doesn't seem to be happening on my single note lines because I am able to hit much more accurately and cleanly than using the leading edge of the pick. I think the main thing I need to deal with is controlling the dynamics of my right hand better, and letting the amp do a little more work. I just have to ingrain this into my playing more, keep my thumb on automatic hitchike mode. What a great lesson. I think it is just what I needed right now.
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Sheryl Bailey who is a fine player and engaging, giving teacher recently did this free Q & A under
the auspices of Truefire.
I recommend the whole presentation, perhaps more slanted to the
intermediates among us, but anyway in relation to "backward" picking she talks about and demos
her [to me extreme] version of the style.
I think she's mistaken regarding the advantages over "regular" picking and does a weird demo
of how she used to pick....and makes some illogical [to me] connections to classical guitar technique.
Had me scratching my head, YMMV as it is said.
This section on picking is it's a shortish part of the whole video [and I must say she had me laughing out loud about the
"fun" she had trying to develop what ever you want to call this picking technique.
So just go to 31:35 and be schooled and entertained.
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My first (and only) guitar teacher was a "Benson Picker". He described his technique as "...it's like brushing away some dust..."
Yes, but I couldn't relate to it, yet .... I learned it. Very soon after I stopped taking lessons from him, I developed a "normal" picking technique and stuck with it ever since. Today I can switch between it anytime, though I almost never do.
In my eyes, the standard technique is vastly superior to the other reversed one, so I use it.
I also believe that Dan Wilson and George Benson are not so fluid, fast and musical because they hold the pick the other way around, but because they are phenomenal musicians who have also payed their dues on practice.
Just my 2c
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I was trying to figure out how to pick off the back edge of the fingerpick I use on my index the other night, as I am practicing this technique with plans on making it a full time thing. Then it dawned on me, I can just very slightly reposition the pick on my fingertip and voila, backwards picking in spite of hand mechanics that would otherwise not really allow that.
I used the backwards technique at a gig last night, which is actually my best paying gig, so I went for broke. I did lose a thumbpick once in the night trying to use this picking technique, lol. It went flying, but was able to get it sorted before I had to be back on the mic so all was well. Otherwise it went really well. It's just going to take a little time but this is the best addition to my playing I've made in quite a while. It's definitely helping me with accuracy and clarity. Once I have it fully integrated I don't think I will ever return to picking the normal way. Just gotta remember to keep that hitchhiker thumb happening and it works on it's own. I'm finding my hand position doesn't really need to be that radical for it to work out ok. I just need to make it an unconscious thing.
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Nooooooooo…..I refuse to believe they haven’t got the cheat codes! Originally Posted by DonEsteban
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in some ways, i think the whole benson picking thing has become a fetish. When I watch someone like Kreisberg play, the tone, articulation and speed is second to none. I think the bottom line is that you don't have to angle your wrist a particular way to sound great. If you *WANT* to sound like benson, that's another story. But if you're just trying to play great, it's not necessary. And if you want to use pick and fingers, it's way harder using benson picking IMO...
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Originally Posted by jzucker
So many variables with guitar: the tone you want, the guitar you play, the style / genre you prefer, what you're used to doing, and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I did learn one thing, though, from Troy Grady. The idea of "starting with speed." That is, try to play as fast you can. (One note, one string, just do it as fast as you can do it and sustain it for a while.)
The idea is that whatever THAT motion is (for you) is how you can play your fastest.
The further idea is, "Okay, that's how YOU can play fast", now keep it clean at various tempos, rhythms, etc.
For me, the way I can play fastest is something like the Benson grip. (Not textbook / orthodox Benson, just that sort of underhanded, pick pointing back toward the bridge thing.) Irony is, I never wanted to sound like Benson. I think he's great, but I never wanted to sound that way. (My favorite jazz guitarist is Herb Ellis, and he didn't play anything like Benson does. He used a standard grip.)
What that grip does for me----and this is just for playing fast for its own sake---is that it makes playing fast easy. It's not something I have to build up to. It's pretty much always there. It's no credit to me, I think that's just the most efficient way for my wrist to move and that other grips (for unknown reasons) somehow don't allow me to move effortlessly that fast. I think the key for everyone is to play in an efficient way, but what is efficient for one may not be for another. Hands differ, habits differ, desired results differ. For example, I love to hear Gypsy jazz sometimes, it's a joy to listen to, but I can't do rest stroke picking that way (which is a cornerstone of the style). Frank Vignola's picking is "mostly down" and it sounds great when he does it but not when I try to do it. ;o)
But it's not the way I want to play for most of the things that I do. I'm a songwriter who is more interested in simple, tasty licks (Steve Cropper, Robbie Robertson, Curtis Mayfield, good blues players) than bop or shred lines. I don't need to play that fast for the things I prefer to do but it bugged the hell out of me for years that I could play fast sometimes but not others, that I was so inconsistent. For my own peace of mind, I had to figure that out. And I did. For me, it's something like the backward picking thing.
It's funny. We've all heard "whatever works." Well, I had been playing for 20 years before I started figuring out what works for me. What I had been doing since elementary school (when I took up the guitar without direction) was fine for strumming and simple riffs (which was all I cared to do back then) but was unsuited to more demanding tasks.
By the way, I make no claim to be a super fast player. What I'm saying is that I found out how I can play fastest, and it's with a variation of the Benson grip. I can approach this speed with other grips, but they are not nearly as consistent, and I can't keep it up for nearly as long. This way, there's no warmup, it's just there. Again, I think what I have found (w that grip for me) is the most efficient way for my wrist to move, period. I wish I was that efficient with a standard grip. (Others are, no doubt, but I'm not.) It's not a big deal in itself, but it was something that was important to me and it took me a lot longer than it should have for the lightbulb to go on.
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I think some people do find technical issues with their playing and are looking for a reliable approach… benson/rodeney jones style seems to be reliable and teachable.
As for me, backwards picking has its advantages and it’s issues. I want to be able to mute and hybrid pick. Underhand grip doesn’t make that exactly easy.
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