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  1. #1

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    Hello, friends!
    my question is a bit stupid
    after watching some videos of jazz masters( for example Wes' concert on 625 ) i see that many of them played with only three fingers. Wes used pinky for playing octaves and chords.
    Even modern player Andreas Oberg plays like that.

    So i have a question if anyone does play with only three fingers and are there any special fingerings for this technique?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I am personally not a fan of 3 fingers only when playing lines. I am a big believer in using all 4 fingers on my fretting hand.

  4. #3

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    If you're not going to use you pinky can I have it? :-)

  5. #4

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    I hope you're not one of those crazy gypsy jazz guys that imitate Django down to hobbling a couple fingers?!

  6. #5

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    I don't know if it's three-fingers-related but I've heard a lot about so called 'shell voicings'. For what I've read they are chords based only on the 1-3-7 notes. Can anyone provide more info about this, is this (as BDLH mentioned) related to the technique Django used?

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by saponsky View Post
    I don't know if it's three-fingers-related but I've heard a lot about so called 'shell voicings'. For what I've read they are chords based only on the 1-3-7 notes. Can anyone provide more info about this, is this (as BDLH mentioned) related to the technique Django used?
    Not Django, more Freddie Green. For example, a couple CMaj7 chords played with only 1-3-7:

    X324XX
    X3x45X
    XX241X
    7XX55X

  8. #7

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    Charlie Christian, George Barnes, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Oscar Moore,T-Bone Walker, B.B. King and Bucky Pizzarelli all use (or used) a predominantly 3 finger left hand approach. This is because they employed a chord shape based method of looking at the fingerboard.

    Swing, blues and bebop guitarists used this approach because it's a "natural" way of organizing the fingerboard.

    The scale fingering/mode approach started to gain currency in the early to mid 1970s due in part to articles that were printed in Guitar Player magazine and later, Guitar World. Those articles were aimed at rock and blues players who sought entry into the world of jazz improvisation. Most of those articles were not written by jazz guitarists and had a classical slant. As a result, some players began to organize the fingerboard as scale fingerings rather than chord shapes. This gives rise to not only a different way of visualizing the fingerboard but also a different way of playing.

    In his 1941 Guitar Method, George Barnes uses chord shapes to outline the fingerboard touching only once on the major scale before diving into lines and phrasing.

    Likewise, in his excellent book Jazz Improvisation for Guitar, Garrison Fewell comments on Wes Montgomery's 'blues guitarist" fingerings. A careful examination of the phrases in Fewell's book reveals that most of them are played with 3 fingers and are also shape based.

    Some of you may disagree but I believe that the best way to understand the evolution of jazz guitar is to approach each era and it's players from their perspective not ours.

    If you want to sound like Christian or Barnes or Wes it's necessary to understand how they approached the guitar. It's not just a matter of getting the right notes but getting the notes right.

    Regards,
    monk

    P.S. If you really want to put stretch marks on your brain, spend a few months figuring out how Django used his left hand. The benefits are enormous.

  9. #8

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    Hey Monk, you aren't mixed up in that nasty flood in Nashville are you? All the big names like Paisley, Urban, and Gill have lost thousands of dollars of new and vintage gear due to the flood water damage. Just brutal.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by monk View Post
    P.S. If you really want to put stretch marks on your brain, spend a few months figuring out how Django used his left hand. The benefits are enormous.

    I recall reading that John Jorgenson from the Hellecasters learned Django solo's using only two fingers. I think I read it in JJG magazine or Guitar Player. Makes sense.

  11. #10

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    Hello Derek,
    I lived in Nashville for over 10 years, working as a road musician. I moved back to my hometown in East Tennessee 5 years ago.
    I've been calling friends in Nashville for 3 days. So far, all have been fortunate. The monsoon-like rain they received (14 inches in 48 hours) is mind boggling.

    Aside to JohnW400,
    I got to jam a couple of tunes with Jorgensen a few years ago and he can indeed play Gypsy Jazz with 2 fingers.

    Regards,
    monk

  12. #11

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    The pinky is the weakest and most inarticulate finger on your hand, and you use it for convenience when a stronger finger is awkward to use. Train it well, but don't expect it to do what your other fingers can do, or you'll waste a lot of time that could be used for better things.

  13. #12

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    Have you guys seen the transcriptions on the Solo Flight website? The solos are all transcribed and tabbed to show how CC actually played them on the fretboard. Some of the licks seem pretty bizarre, inefficient, and more difficult to play than if they were in more normal positions. I've been learning some of them just to get a different idea of how to navigate the fretboard. Anyway, pretty tough, but even more so if CC was only using 3 fingers!

  14. #13

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    I've seen the Solo Flight website. The guy who runs the site is performing a great service by posting the transcriptions. However, he has some peculiar ideas about fingering. He alleges that CC only used 2 left hand fingers when playing.

    Barney Kessel wrote an article in Guitar Player magazine describing his meeting with CC. In the article he stated: "Charlie played probably 95% downstrokes...... He almost never used the 4th finger of his left hand." If CC had done something as unusual as only using 2 fingers I believe that BK would have mentioned it.

    Guitarists like Kessel, Ellis & Bucky Pizzarelli who were influenced by CC and who saw him play use standard chord shapes as reference. There's plenty of video available of these guys playing in the Christian style and none of them is using strange fingerings.

    If I were you I would disregard the TAB at that website and use the notation as a guide to create your own TAB refingered to standard chord shapes.

    Actually, CC's phrases lay perfectly for three fingers and aren't difficult to execute. The big trick is connecting the phrases and that isn't so much a trick as common sense. Most of CC's style is based on major and minor triads and dominant shapes.

    Regards,
    monk

  15. #14

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    Lots of rock and blues guys mostly use three fingers for solos. Better for bends and vibrato. Also extends their reach with the pinky. I use four fingers because I have small hands and it would be difficult to retrain myself. I definitely see the benefit though.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by monk View Post
    Hello Derek,
    I lived in Nashville for over 10 years, working as a road musician. I moved back to my hometown in East Tennessee 5 years ago.
    I've been calling friends in Nashville for 3 days. So far, all have been fortunate.
    The monsoon-like rain they received (14 inches in 48 hours) is mind boggling.

    Regards,
    monk
    A musician friend of mine has been down there for a month and a half, he woke up, stepped out of bed, into a foot of water. car sunk, most of his stuff wrecked. got his guitar out.

    The monsoon-like rain they received (14 inches in 48 hours) is mind boggling.

    maybe climate change is real after all right? probably a lot of deniers in Tennessee.

  17. #16

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    The pinky is the weakest and most inarticulate finger on your hand, and you use it for convenience when a stronger finger is awkward to use. Train it well, but don't expect it to do what your other fingers can do, or you'll waste a lot of time that could be used for better things.
    I heard that when you practice with all 4 the weakest will be the ring finger..

  18. #17
    i think the question is not the weakness of 4th finger but what "picture" or box to use when playing

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobniuch View Post
    I heard that when you practice with all 4 the weakest will be the ring finger..
    That may be true, but when supported by the 1st and 2nd finger, wouldn't you agree it becomes one the the most articulate with bends and vibrato? Much more so than the pinky supported by other fingers, IMO.

  20. #19
    TommyD Guest
    I've organized my fretboard in units of 4 frets because that's how I've organized scales in my head, with occasional necessary stretches to 5 frets above or below. I couldn't imagine ham-stringing my playing by switching to using only 3 fingers. When I see players doing it, like Peter Bernstein and others, I'm amazed that they can play descending runs across six strings.
    When I learned, it was, "You have four fingers - why would you want to use only three?" The guys I learned from, and who I watched, all used four fingers; Tal, Pass, Hall, etc. Even Emily, (who always looks like she's hurting her tiny little pinky. I wince for her.)
    If my pinky is lying over the note I want, why would I want to move my hand to place some other finger over the note? No thanks. And I probably had (past tense) the smallest, weakest fifth finger on the planet. No more. It's still skinny and small but it isn't weak.
    There's no way to prove it, but I have a suspicion that using 3 fingers didn't come about out of critical analysis of the fretboard, arpeggios, and scales, but because, away from classical guitar, no one pressed four-finger technique on early jazz players. Even today, we see several great players, (e.g. Methany) flipping their thumb over the neck to hit notes. I think that too, is home-made technique.
    Well, there's my $0.02. Bombs away!
    Tommy/

  21. #20

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    I'd be royally screwed without a pinky.

  22. #21

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    Gotta have the pinky---I've been reworking the fret board to a "triad" centric technical approach (4 triads x 3 forms--root +2 inv x 12keys) whereby the associated scale AND arpeggi is immediately available from that shape with minimal movement--- to accesss the scale or arpeggi, gotta have that pinky available and ready at a moments notice.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by abracadabra View Post
    Have you guys seen the transcriptions on the Solo Flight website?
    Hey can I get the actual url for this website?

  24. #23

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    Sometimes I'll immobilize my index finger by wrapping it all up in tape, or tape a short pencil to it or sumpin', and proceed to play my guitar, do solos, scales, chords, etc, with the available 3 fingers. What I found was, the brain kind of naturally compensates for your immobilized index finger and starts sending messages to the other fingers on what they have to do without thinking too much. This works the shit out of your pinky and really forces it to another level of dexterity. Think Django. The brain really does compensate. When you restore use of the index finger, it feels like there's nothing you can't do. Has anybody else ever done anything like this?

  25. #24

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    I once hit my index finger with an axe (a chopper not a guitar) - by accident, not on purpose - while I was have lessons from a classical guitar teacher. I had to spend about a month with it strapped up and managed to play my way through my exercises without too much trouble - had to re-finger a few moves, but was surprised how well I was able to keep playing. Apart from the pain and blood loss it was actually beneficial

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christien View Post
    Hey can I get the actual url for this website?
    SOLO FLIGHT (Home Page)

    it's a great site -enjoy

  27. #26

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    Several people here have mentioned Pat Martino's book Linear Expressions. Those who've studied the book or PM's videos are aware that he employs what he refers to as "Line Forms" to improvise.

    Even though PM uses a linear basis for his improvisations, the line forms are related to chord forms. Specifically, five minor 7th shapes.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, many early swing and bebop guitarists used chord shapes as a point of reference and predominantly played with 3 LH fingers using the pinky as an auxiliary digit.

    Here is a recent video of Pat Martino playing at a workshop. There are some good LH close ups. Notice that he employs a predominantly 3 finger approach similar to Christian, Wes and the older players. I thought this might be of interest in that his "real life" approach is different than the fingerings given in his book.



    Enjoy,
    monk
    Last edited by monk; 06-11-2010 at 11:53 PM. Reason: to correct spelling

  28. #27
    TommyD Guest
    A really close look at your utube tape reveals, I think, that P.M does use his LH pinky on the fret board. He doesn't use it as much as I hoped he would, but it does snap down to the strings once in a while. His (and other master players) mostly-3-finger approach discourages me though. I've spent years developing 4 LH fingers playing style. Three finger playing is a whole new ball of wax; it means more hand-jumping - a little arithmetic makes it look like 25% more!
    I can see why guys do the 3-finger thing though - the ring finger is the slowest flexion responder, and probably ends up slowing us down. There's an anatomical reason. For a good portion of it's length, its flexor tendon is physically attached to the pinky tendon. All the others are independent for their full length.
    Can I say it? Scheiss!!

    tommy/

  29. #28
    TommyD Guest
    CORRECTION; I should have said that the ring finger ends up slowing us down when we try to play using 4-finger technique.

  30. #29

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    TommyD,
    A really close look at my post reveals that I said "predominantly played with 3 LH fingers using the pinky as an auxiliary digit" and "he employs a predominantly 3 finger approach similar to Christian, Wes and the older players"

    I didn't say that PM or Wes or anyone else used 3 fingers exclusively nor did I state that they never used their pinkies. The key word is predominantly.

    I watched the YouTube video carefully several times before I made my post and tried to be clear in my statements.

    My main point is that Martino's real life playing approach is very similar to other great jazz guitarists and is different from what is given in his book, which leads me to believe that the editor is at fault. Unfortunately, the people who suffer are the people who buy the book in good faith.

    I can understand your frustration. I was in the same boat as you once, trying to play everything with 4 fingers and using scale forms as my reference. However, for me, things became much easier when I switched and it didn't take that much time.

    Your anatomical observations are right on the money and there is the added factor that the ring finger and pinky share a nerve bundle that make alternate articulation difficult.

    Regards,
    monk
    Last edited by monk; 06-11-2010 at 11:54 PM.

  31. #30
    TommyD Guest
    Monk said: "Your anatomical observations are right on the money and there is the added factor that the ring finger and pinky share a nerve bundle that make alternate articulation difficult.

    Regards,
    monk"

    They ought to be. I dissected a hand in anatomy class. The lack of freedom of individual articulation though, can be traced more to the unusual tendon arrangement than to neural factors.
    t/

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAQ View Post
    I once hit my index finger with an axe (a chopper not a guitar) - by accident, not on purpose - while I was have lessons from a classical guitar teacher. I had to spend about a month with it strapped up and managed to play my way through my exercises without too much trouble - had to re-finger a few moves, but was surprised how well I was able to keep playing. Apart from the pain and blood loss it was actually beneficial
    What were you doing with an axe in your classical guitar lesson? Playing "Chopsticks"?

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Sometimes I'll immobilize my index finger by wrapping it all up in tape, or tape a short pencil to it or sumpin', and proceed to play my guitar, do solos, scales, chords, etc, with the available 3 fingers. What I found was, the brain kind of naturally compensates for your immobilized index finger and starts sending messages to the other fingers on what they have to do without thinking too much. This works the shit out of your pinky and really forces it to another level of dexterity. Think Django. The brain really does compensate. When you restore use of the index finger, it feels like there's nothing you can't do. Has anybody else ever done anything like this?
    That's a cool idea! Never tried it but I'll give it a whirl soon. Have you tried it immobilising other fingers, CG?

  34. #33

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    I've noticed Pat Metheny doesn't use his pinky all that much,but whats the point of copying another player...to be a copy cat?

  35. #34

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    In an ensemble context, the guitar being a rhythm instrument with added harmonic capability and added lead capability, two fingers should be enough. But as a solo instrument, using all the fingers available on both right and left hands (including both thumbs) would certainly increase its sophistication. I can't imagine Ralph Towner, Charlie Hunter, Martin Taylor or Tuck Andress using only 2-3 fingers.

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by margarets32 View Post
    Hide stretch marks, How to hide stretch marks. Keeping muscles well-toned pulls the skin tight, and that makes stretch marks less obvious. Habitual stretching is also beneficial: it adds elasticity. A toning and stretching regimen of at least three days a week should be deeply engrained in your life, for an endless list of good reasons. If the appearance of stretch marks is your stimulus to try exercise for the first time, be sure to get excellent instruction from a certified fitness professional.
    http://stretchmarkinstitute.com/9,how-to-hide-stretch-marks.html
    hey this spam is timely, taking monk's advice to check out the Dango LH, my brain does indeed have stretchmarks

  37. #36
    destinytot Guest
    Fascinating thread. I'm late to the party, but I'd like to thank everyone that's contributed.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Fascinating thread. I'm late to the party, but I'd like to thank everyone that's contributed.
    Yes, this thread has been dormant awhile but it is new to me too, and the topic---'(Mainly) three fingers or four?'---remains relevant.

    I was assigned Martino's "Linear Expressions" by my first jazz teacher. I think those five "activities" are among the things I know best all over the guitar (-at least as far as my current model and big hands allow me to roam).

    Seeing Pat play with (mainly) three fingers doesn't make me want to do that. I'm a four-finger guy. It helps with the Herb Ellis stuff I love so much. Herb worked the pinky.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  39. #38

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    Does any think that three fingered players need to roam around the neck more than 4 fingered out of necessity, and if so, would it follow then that 4 fingered players needn't change position as often as some seem to, in order to express their lines?

    I say this because moving positions often creates disadvantages- accuracy and speed can be compromised, as well as being able to conceptualize many lines /devices/ concepts etc in at least 5 positions in all 12 keys....

    Now I know that three fingered playing (or even 2!) can actually be a benefit in terms of strength and control, which is why the 3 greats (CC DR and WM) sound so "strong"... but there were, I presume, lines they could not play that 4 strong fingers might?

  40. #39
    destinytot Guest
    Since reading Monk's great posts on this thread, I've tried playing off chord shapes. I was surprised at the lines that suggested themselves when I did this on the top four strings.

    What was more surprising to me, however, was that I felt most comfortable angling my left-hand and using three fingers (especially when playing off shapes with roots on the fifth and sixth strings). The interplay between a firm, precise fretting hand and a firm, precise picking hand really makes for notes played with conviction.

    I also find that I need to adjust the position of my left hand and make a conscious effort in order to get my little finger to play its part in producing such notes, that I can do this, but that - for me - this finger seems to work best in scale-based lines.

  41. #40
    destinytot Guest
    Hi princeplanet.

    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Does any think that three fingered players need to roam around the neck more than 4 fingered out of necessity, and if so, would it follow then that 4 fingered players needn't change position as often as some seem to, in order to express their lines?
    I'd say yes to both. But, IMHO, where choice of fingering exists, the quality of tone would make the choice a 'no-brainer'.

    I say this because moving positions often creates disadvantages- accuracy and speed can be compromised, as well as being able to conceptualize many lines /devices/ concepts etc in at least 5 positions in all 12 keys....
    That really got me thinking. Not sure the last part of this sentence holds true if the three-finger player is playing off chord shapes, so I tried it out. When I played intervals/fragments within a chord shape I used three, but I used four if I played an arpeggio, which set up a line as soon as the fourth finger came into play.

    Thanks for raising the question.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Since reading Monk's great posts on this thread, I've tried playing off chord shapes. I was surprised at the lines that suggested themselves when I did this on the top four strings.

    What was more surprising to me, however, was that I felt most comfortable angling my left-hand and using three fingers (especially when playing off shapes with roots on the fifth and sixth strings). The interplay between a firm, precise fretting hand and a firm, precise picking hand really makes for notes played with conviction.
    There's a lot there, alright. There's a reason they call those shapes "handy."
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 10-30-2016 at 10:34 AM.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    Hi princeplanet.



    I'd say yes to both. But, IMHO, where choice of fingering exists, the quality of tone would make the choice a 'no-brainer'.



    That really got me thinking. Not sure the last part of this sentence holds true if the three-finger player is playing off chord shapes, so I tried it out. When I played intervals/fragments within a chord shape I used three, but I used four if I played an arpeggio, which set up a line as soon as the fourth finger came into play.

    Thanks for raising the question.
    I'm not sure this addresses the question though, so permit me to rephrase.... If a 3 finger guy learns a line that has to move through 3 or 4 positions to complete it, surely he only knows one way to play that line, in all keys. With 4 fingers, I can play most of my lines without changing position. This means I can play the same line in 5 CAGED positions, so if I'm looking for a line over Bb7 and I'm in the 9th position, I can express any line I've mastered in all CAGED positions (or variations of...). But if I have a great 3 fingered line/device I learned for Eb7 that started in the 10th position and ended in the 2nd position, I can't fit it in without moving way up high and out of position.

    My point is that 3 fingered guys with pet horizontal lines are limited in that way - whilst having advantages in other aspects. Comes down to what's important to each player I guess? BTW, I never notice 3 fingered piano players, sax players, or violin players (ok, maybe trumpet players! )....

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    I'm not sure this addresses the question though, so permit me to rephrase.... If a 3 finger guy learns a line that has to move through 3 or 4 positions to complete it, surely he only knows one way to play that line, in all keys.
    Couple things. First, if one is using the "F-D-A" approach, there are only 3 positions, period. Second, one of the benefits of the 'shape' approach is that you associate lines with shapes. It's not an attempt to play any particular line everywhere it is possible to play it on a guitar. Consider the following example.

    In his book "Rhythm Shapes" Herb Ellis provides a series of eight-bar lines for each of the three main "major" shapes. The lines for shape 1 (what I call the "long A" shape but Herb just calls "shape one") are not the same as the lines for shape 2 (-which looks like an "F" chord) and neither of those are the same as the lines for shape 3 (-the "D" shape. He's not trying to teach how to play line X everywhere on the guitar; he's teaching you how to play good jazz lines out of simple shapes. Not the same thing at all.

    He also teaches lines that "combine the shapes" but there's no attempt to get you to play each line in every shape. That would defeat the purpose of the system!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Couple things. First, if one is using the "F-D-A" approach, there are only 3 positions, period. Second, one of the benefits of the 'shape' approach is that you associate lines with shapes. It's not an attempt to play any particular line everywhere it is possible to play it on a guitar. Consider the following example.

    In his book "Rhythm Shapes" Herb Ellis provides a series of eight-bar lines for each of the three main "major" shapes. The lines for shape 1 (what I call the "long A" shape but Herb just calls "shape one") are not the same as the lines for shape 2 (-which looks like an "F" chord) and neither of those are the same as the lines for shape 3 (-the "D" shape. He's not trying to teach how to play line X everywhere on the guitar; he's teaching you how to play good jazz lines out of simple shapes. Not the same thing at all.

    He also teaches lines that "combine the shapes" but there's no attempt to get you to play each line in every shape. That would defeat the purpose of the system!
    OK, yes I see how that makes sense. Still, for someone like me who has invested a lot of time in learning lines in 5 positions, I could never abandon my own method. Maybe If I'd been taught the F_D_A thing from the start....

    And I think I get why I'll never sound like the 3 finger guys, but that's ok, I'm going for me anyways. Infact, Im starting to realise that if I transcribe lines that were played with different fingerings, I may not ever get the attack or conviction right. I'm even finding that horn lines, as much as I love them, won't always sound convincing on the guitar either, whether I use 2, 3 or all ten fingers!

    At some point I've understood that the interesting challenge for me is to construct my own unique system that allows me to express the sounds I want to make. Honestly, I'd rather be a failure at my own thing than yet another also ran that successfully copied someone else's idiosyncratic system. It's not classical violin fer chrissakes, there's no set pedagogy, there's no rules. That's what makes it exciting, and what attracted me to Jazz guitar in the first place.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    OK, yes I see how that makes sense. Still, for someone like me who has invested a lot of time in learning lines in 5 positions, I could never abandon my own method. Maybe If I'd been taught the F_D_A thing from the start....

    At some point I've understood that the interesting challenge for me is to construct my own unique system that allows me to express the sounds I want to make. Honestly, I'd rather be a failure at my own thing than yet another also ran that successfully copied someone else's idiosyncratic system. It's not classical violin fer chrissakes, there's no set pedagogy, there's no rules. That's what makes it exciting, and what attracted me to Jazz guitar in the first place.
    The sound is the thing. If you like what you're getting, you're gold.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  47. #46
    destinytot Guest
    pet horizontal lines
    I see what you mean, but I meant improvising - starting from within a chord shape, listening and responding to ideas that come up.

    Mind you, I do think what comes up may well be a pet line (that calls for four fingers ), but visualising shapes and leading with strong fingers can generate ideas. And pet lines are not necessarily a bad thing; for me, rhythm, dynamics and phrasing are what really elevate melodic improvisation.

    I'm looking forward to experimenting with playing off chord shapes on the upper strings and in the upper register. This method strikes me as a great way to get inside the changes. (My own pets are chord tone arpeggios and chromatics.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-05-2014 at 04:29 PM.

  48. #47
    destinytot Guest
    At some point I've understood that the interesting challenge for me is to construct my own unique system that allows me to express the sounds I want to make.
    Absolutely.

  49. #48

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    Nature ofguitar is such that most things are played with 3 fingers, there's no need to force use of that 4th one, but it's absolutelly ridiculous not to use it when and where it's natural and logical to use it, which is what typical and average 3 finger guys do - not use it at all.
    I think it's not really usefull mentioning genious players in technique issues like this one, because most of us could not do it with any number of fingers.

    Monk's experience is cool, but I bet he uses all available fingers as needed.
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
    v v v

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Honestly, I'd rather be a failure at my own thing than yet another also ran that successfully copied someone else's idiosyncratic system.
    Really? As a complete nobody playing for the enjoyment of myself and those around me, I would rather be able to play convincingly in the style of one of my favourites than to not be a very good guitarist.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    Really? As a complete nobody playing for the enjoyment of myself and those around me, I would rather be able to play convincingly in the style of one of my favourites than to not be a very good guitarist.
    Oh certainly, jazz guitarists are all so different in their aspirations, some wanna just sound competent and get gigs, some wanna break new ground in new styles. Me, I just wanna break new ground in old styles (Hard Bop / Post Bop), those genres, in my mind, were not fully explored before they were discarded.

    It's art vs craft, the artist strives to please himself, the craft guy likes to see his stuff to be useful to others. It ain't "lofty" to suggest Jazz guitar is an art, and an extremely disciplined one at that!