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Dunno. I can't see how not revisiting skills and knowledge for a year would be a good experiment.
As interesting as it may be, since it has been done over and over anyway by most people then.. nah.
But I guess you have an idea and a plan, well, hm. Why not
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06-09-2023 11:48 PM
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I like the idea that learning is non linear, it's organic and follows a cumulative flow of dynamic knowledge. Personally, I do give myself restrictions like this but for me, imposing a time frame, especially something like a year, might seem reactionary to a point of diminishing returns, but I'm not after the same thing as the OP.
With so many balls to juggle in becoming a balanced improvisor, it is indeed necessary to leave the path of conventional learning and develop your own skillset; to supplant a lick approach with something else, for example. But a year is a long time, and an arbitrary amount of time to hold one's self to an attitude of abstinence, when it's unknown how long it will take you to accomplish your goal.
That's one of the things I hated about music school: This idea that a semester can provide a specific amount of information in a specific amount of time.
I really admire Sonny Rollins. His playing had reached a point, and he was at the top of the scene where he and Coltrane recognized their place in determining where tenor sax would go next. Sonny couldn't find that with his peers on the bandstand and he took to playing his tenor every night on a bridge over the East River. He cleared his mind, but he left it open how long until he would cloister himself from the scene and how long until he would re-join the scene.
Coltrane took up a place in Monk's band and it changed him. But he didn't know how long it would take him or even where it would take him until he was ready to close that chapter.
When Mick Goodrick left Gary Burton's band (where he shared packed stages every night with Swallow, Pat Metheny and Bob Moses) he stopped playing jazz completely and spent close to a year only playing Bach lute suites on a classical guitar. But he had no idea when he began how long until something told him it was time to rejoin the world he felt was lacking.
It can be productive to give one's self goals. I think it's really important to recognize when those goals have been achieved to a point where they're part of a larger picture.
Something to think about:
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Jimmy Blue Note,
That was the absolute best thing someone possibly could have said. Thank you.
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Half way.
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Sorry joe, did not see this post before.
Originally Posted by joe2758
I tend to think of anything that’s not an obvious chord-tone or scale note as just a passing note of some kind. I guess I just incorporate them without thinking about it too much by now, also enclosures, approach notes, etc.
I agree that it makes a big difference once you start using these ideas freely. I guess I figured it out mainly by listening to the records, lifting ideas, etc. I know my playing got a lot more ‘chromatic’ after I worked through some of the Jimmy Raney solos in that Aebersold book he did. Also I got some good stuff from playing a few of the Pat Martino lines in the Linear Expressions book.Last edited by grahambop; 12-19-2023 at 06:01 AM.
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Is anything improving? :P Originally Posted by joe2758
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I came back to review the guidelines, and so far I am staying true to it (I wasn't quite sure if I remembered them all). Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Lots of improvement and no boredom, although if I did get bored I would just put the guitar away anyway. As expected, huge flux in the amount of time spent playing. 2-3 hours in a week at the most, a month without playing at the least; I may have even gone 2 months without playing.
I haven't been updating this after Jimmy posted that TED talk video, because it made me realize that there is nothing interesting to discuss until I post some playing at the end of this period.
I subscribed to the thread now just in case someone was curious.
I will say it might have been good if I wrote down some of my "ah-hah!" moments to share at the end, because I'm sure I will forget them. Which is no problem for me, but may have made this less useful for the teachers here. But, maybe also less annoying and pretentious.
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Everything is still primarily horizontal, but lately basic chord shapes have been showing themselves in my mind's eye like pillars along the way.
Somewhere to land safely, sure, but I think it is happening because of this:
If I want to play an unaccented passing tone in soprano, a suspension in alto, and a triplet neighboring tone in the tenor; the non harmonic tones are so (desirably) misaligned that solid guides are necessary.
It also tells me if I have landed on a plain 6th or diminished chord, which I generally avoid.
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It has been close enough to a year, so I'm ready to move on from this experiment.
Here is a one-off first take video to demonstrate a representational example of the style developed here. I would say the results are almost exactly what I was expecting/hoping for. I am very happy, and definitely 5/5 would recommend.
And I thank you for your attention.
p.s. It seems in this video did I not only play in A, but was apparently wanting to just play the literal Amaj6dim the entire clip.
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That's pretty Joe.
I look forward to hear what's next.
A
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Thanks man. Any of the good stuff I learned from you, ill take the blame for the rest!
For those who don't know I am Alan's only student by way of blackmail and, probably, fraud.
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as to what's next
Starting off fresh for a new period:
- add other 3 strings
- continue only in key of A
- focus on bass lines and flourishes
- Study and apply the techniques in Fernando Sor's guitar method
- Learn easy Sor pieces and apply the theme to various 6dim scales thereby creating improvised etudes.
- Use a metronome, and increase average tempos, or otherwise employ flourishes.
- continue to only play if i feel like it
- continue not putting conscious effort into remembering things I played, or constructing complicated moves.
- No recording til the end of the period.
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Sounds like Debussy Originally Posted by joe2758
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Wow...thank you!
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I went through my book of the complete Fernando Sor Etudes and found about 20 in the key of A/a-. If I were to find 20 studies in b-, D, E, and f-; I would have about 100 studies to cover A major. This is good news for me, because it means transposing won't be necessary. I can stick more ardently to the A major only. If I learned and analyze 2 per week I could probably go through most of them. I don't need to get them to performance level which makes going through them just however much time I have.
The process is learn and analyze, adapt it to its coinciding 6 dim scale, then improvise on the theme. Almost like a figured bass.
Thoroughly studying Sor's method is saving me a ton of work, his unique approach is as if it was tailor made for me.
Edit: I selected around 30 etudes total for the year planning to take about 5 at a time for roughly 2 months at a time. No f- etudes found, so I will do one in A, a-, D, E, and b- every couple months. This smaller number is much better; I think less pieces and more detail will be better.
In terms of arranging, I am transposing (to A) and arranging a chopin piece. Between that and the etudes, I will need to keep in mind my primary aim is to improve my improvising. I already know how to arrange, but I am arranging it to use as an improv tool.
In the spirit of "only practicing when I feel like it," I also have to make sure I don't put pressure on myself to "finish this, work on that" etc...
I am looking forward to working on the Barry Harris bass move referred to as "major to minor to minor with a 6th in the bass" which I will dub in my own mind "Moonbeam turnaround" to save mental space. Also other standard bass lines like in rhythm changes etc.Last edited by joe2758; 04-18-2024 at 11:09 AM.
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To keep the post count/how annoying I am down, I took notes throughout the year. So here is a mashup of the more interesting entries. It seems a unique approach leads to unique ideas; so I will share.
1. This is in regard to the various 6th dim scales I used in the context of Amajor key:
A maj "home"
E maj "bright home"
A min "dark home"
D maj "neighbor"
F# min "dark neighbor"
E7 "path"
B min "bright path"
Bb7 "far path"
C#7 "rude neighbor"
Gb7 "back path"
2. Less notes per chord requires more movement and rhythmic interest per chord, and maximum rhythmic richness occurs with 3 against 4. . If Idiad is played up the scale in 5 moves, it represents roughly the same"amount" of harmony as triads going up 3 moves.
3. In thisbubble world where guitar is twice as easy, twice as interesting, and twice asenjoyable; it seems to be that the improvements are twice as evident, twice asfrequent, and twice as substantial. If applying these new improvements to other keys andstrings is twice as fast as learning in the reverse ordinary manner; it seemsthis experimentmay be twice as useful as otherwise assumed. This does indeed seem to be the case.
4. Before I took the long break from guitar, I laid the groundwork of this style by arranging roughly one tune a month for 3 years to learn how to apply Barry Harris concepts. I practiced about 1-3 hours every day. On reviewing the old videos, here is what I find:
A) Too challenging, demanding, taxing to play
B) Too hard to remember (Each time I made one, I forgot the previous one)
C) Too much arranging, planning, thinking
D) Poor time, feel, rhythm, groove (because of the above)
During this time I did develop a harmonic pallet and I like to think this period of time was a necessary part of the process. I ended up getting pretty dejected at the time, however, due to seeming lack of progress.
One problem was probably that as I began being able to arrange faster, I just used the extra time to make them more complicated. This in hindsight would of course never lead to being able to improvise!
5. Looking back at the initial guidelines:
Only playing key of A- Very beneficial. Continue another year.
Only playing 3 strings- leads to horizontal conceptualization of thefretboard.
which leads to each string being conceptualized as a singlevoice.
which Leads to easily achieving smooth voice leading.
which Leads to a conceptualization that satisfactorilycorresponds to the music.
which facilitates use and understanding of "correct"harmonic/borrowed notes.
which leads to easy improvisation of melodies and pushing/pulling of the voices
Very beneficial. Add the other strings but maintain thisview of the music and fretboard
No exercises- I am glad I added this, however I am letting this one go so long as I enjoy playing the exercise (e.g. Sor studies).
No making/learning arrangements- Letting this one go, but I need to keep in mind my goal is improv. These things can contribute toward that goal if I'm sure to bear it in mind.
No licks- Continue, although this specifically means no sitting down to purposefully compose licks.
No tunes- Glad I added this, but letting it go now.
No playing with or in front of ppl- This never really came up,but I am glad I refrained from sharing videos when I was considering it. This keeps me focused on long term progress.
No practice unless feel like it- interestingly almost theopposite applied here; sometimes I had to hold myself back and take a break inorder to not get too excited and obsessive about the results. Because I hadn'tbeen trying to remember anything, after a long break I didn't feel like I"lost" anything. I also didn't feel pressure to practice somethingfor fear of losing it. I love this rule.
I would recommend the primary rules (1 key, 3 strings, 1 year) of this experiment to anyone whom is in a situation where it makes sense to try (e.g. doesn't play gigs).
6. Since a main point is to make my playing natural to the guitar, it would be natural to start looking at techniques.
Long story short, I found Fernando Sor's method book and it was literally exactly what I was looking for.
- only using PIM
- not using nails
- *right hand mechanics that allow easily spacing strings, e.g P on 6th string I on 3rd and M on 1st string
- Not afraid to play successive notes with one finger, or otherwise employ slurs.
in other words, the bare minimum. something that wont need "upkeep"
His music is generally 3 voices, romantic in style, and occasional virtuosic techniques (but the easy kind). Diminished derived harmony.
His whole fretboard conception is 6th and 3rd intervals in horizontal movement. he focused always on the lowest note (solfege). This translates very well to visualizing 6th dim scales, and is a sort of middle ground between a vertical and strictly horizontal view.
Left hand shifts keeping the thumb planted.
importantly, his etudes are designed to sound hard to play but, in reality, are easy. I think this is only the case if you use his technique as described in his method book, though. When I began studying classical 10 years ago or so, I found the Sor studies relatively awkward. Now I see it is very natural IF I use his technique.
I can also see now that the composers who wrote all these studies (Sor, Carcassi, guilliani etc) didn't sit down and laboriously place every single note on the paper. Now what I imagine rather is that these sort of easy studies are likely similar to what it would sound like if they sat down to improvise. Thinking of it in these terms, the style is not far from what I want to do excepting more modern harmony.\
Bytaking a Sor etude and substituting the 6th dim scale there is a ready madeideal piece.
7. whenplaying eighth-note triplets against straight-eighths, the straight 8ths say"may i have your attention please."
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