Cecil Alexander picking technique

[bediles]

Cool. Let us know how it goes.

[James W]

I've made the decision to go all-in on the downward pick-slanting economy style, and have just spent the best part of an afternoon notating all the pick strokes on the Donna Lee melody in accordance with this picking style. I deviate in one or two places where I might use a swipe or a little bit of cross-picking, but it's ok to deviate a bit like Cecil Alexander does and in any case not all (for example) Gypsy jazz guitarists will start a new string with a downstroke, they'll occasionally use a swipe. And yeah, going to avoid improvising much for a while, until I get my head and hands around these mechanics. Just playing a scale with this isn't too head-scratching but the thought of 'translating' so to speak various scale patterns and exercises from pure alternate picking (or string-hopping lol) into this style will take some work. Assembling a vocabulary from the ground up, too...

This is where I'm at (again, lol). Really feel the need to avoid string-hopping - not necessarily because it's a slow technique, because for a lot of the music I play it's fast enough - but rather because it feels awkward and sort of choppy, or produces phrasing that feels and/or sounds as such. I have come to the conclusion that teachers who advocate alternate picking as a baseline technique, such as Guthrie Govan or Jens Larsen, are unaware of this issue many people have with alternate picking because they themselves don't experience such issues; while the proposed solution of a teacher who does acknowledge the issue - Troy Grady - is to practice everything above a speed that string hopping is capable of, which, while probably fine for any would-be shredder, seems to me to be not very practical or rewarding for someone interested in playing jazz - or so it seems to me. So, by comparison the downward pick-slanting economy technique is idiomatic and quite uncomplicated as a baseline picking style but once its precepts have been absorbed - so it seems to me - it can accommodate deviations from its 'rules' such as upward sweeps that you see in Cecil or Bireli's playing. The absence of rules other than constant down-up for alternate picking - its ostensible simplicity - actually disguises the relative complexity of the set of motions involved in it, while the rules of the downward pick-slanting economy style only exist because as a technique it is by comparison straightforward and like I say, idiomatic for the guitar. But those rules, once absorbed, can be bent. And as Cecil demonstrates on a video posted in this thread, he can play a Bud Powell solo, so that seems to me to be a good enough demonstration of what you can do with this picking technique...

[Bop Head]

Maybe this is of help for those interested in George Benson's picking technique. His former assistant Russ DeFilippis talks about it (among other interesting things).

(For the impatient: The part about picking starts at about 0:35, but you will miss e.g. the part about GB's harmonic approach to improvising.)

[Peng1026]

From the close up views it looks like primarily forearm rotation (probably with some wrist too) similar to gypsy picking not only in number of notes per string but in the actual movement mechanic. What do you guys think?

I've also tried to dissect Benson and Dan Wilson but Cecil Alexander seems to doing less compound movements and is easier to see. I'm aware of the Troy Grady stuff but it gets confusing when you try to analyze yourself.

Cheers

I actually transcribed his line in the video, this is the first part just for your understanding of my point:


It's very confusing that Cecil claimed he plays only downstroke when changing string, but in this line he actually doesn't follow this rule, he played very often upstrokes when change a string. He play the hammer on just very randomly, so far that I could understand. Any thoughts on this?

[James W]

It's very confusing that Cecil claimed he plays only downstroke when changing string, but in this line he actually doesn't follow this rule, he played very often upstrokes when change a string. He play the hammer on just very randomly, so far that I could understand. Any thoughts on this?

Yeah, what I have gathered from having watched his picking masterclass and studied the transcriptions that come with it, while his 'base' technique is based around the rest stroke on the downstroke and therefore an escaped upstroke, he actually does do things like cross-picking (as well as up-sweeps) and while he says he only does it in short bursts, its presence is nevertheless there, and he describes it as a way of getting more nuanced phrasing - not sure quite what he means, I just interpret it as a way of introducing more flexibility into his picking technique & lines. Anyway he evidently has absorbed these things quite a bit to the point where he doesn't have to think about it; I guess if your mind works like that that's great, but personally my mind doesn't work like that, I prefer to do economy picking of the two-way variety which allows me to do all the exercises I was doing with alternate picking but in a smoother and obviously more economical way. I prefer a more systematic and flexible picking technique rather than the downward pickslanting one which just seems limited, Cecil's workarounds notwithstanding.

[pauln]

Sometimes the one picking is the worst one to describe their picking technique (accurately). I confirmed from examining a few months back that I use exclusively free strokes (after I found out what a rest stroke was). Only earlier this month I discovered that I slowly ascend using down strokes, quickly ascend using economy, but descend at all tempos using strict alternating.

[bediles]

I actually transcribed his line in the video, this is the first part just for your understanding of my point:


It's very confusing that Cecil claimed he plays only downstroke when changing string, but in this line he actually doesn't follow this rule, he played very often upstrokes when change a string. He play the hammer on just very randomly, so far that I could understand. Any thoughts on this?

I think you missed one hammer-on in the 3rd bar b string to get an upstroke on the e string (less cross picking that way). Otherwise there's a couple of crosspicking spots on that one note per string triad arp (2nd bar?) and btw the e and b string (3rd bar). These instances are usually outside picking, I think.

The following is the toolkit to make sense of the line your trnascribed:

1. USX (upstroke escape)
2. Downstroke sweeps
3. Add HO/PU when odd number of notes per string
4. Add HO/PO to start new string w upstroke)
5. Crosspicking (one note per string when you can't do #4 Ex. One note on a lower string)
6. Double down when slower temp and more fee picking in general when it's slower like what James W said

[Peng1026]

Yeah, what I have gathered from having watched his picking masterclass and studied the transcriptions that come with it, while his 'base' technique is based around the rest stroke on the downstroke and therefore an escaped upstroke, he actually does do things like cross-picking (as well as up-sweeps) and while he says he only does it in short bursts, its presence is nevertheless there, and he describes it as a way of getting more nuanced phrasing - not sure quite what he means, I just interpret it as a way of introducing more flexibility into his picking technique & lines. Anyway he evidently has absorbed these things quite a bit to the point where he doesn't have to think about it; I guess if your mind works like that that's great, but personally my mind doesn't work like that, I prefer to do economy picking of the two-way variety which allows me to do all the exercises I was doing with alternate picking but in a smoother and obviously more economical way. I prefer a more systematic and flexible picking technique rather than the downward pickslanting one which just seems limited, Cecil's workarounds notwithstanding.

yes I think I could comprehend that cross picking (when single note on one string) and the up sweeps. The most confusing thing for me is the first four notes of the line, he actually did a hammer-on on the 3-notes string, but did a upstroke on the other string.... for me he actually acted a even-number-notes principle (regardless of the string changing), rather than the string-changing principle. But i think you are right, he internalized his stuff so deeply that he wouldn't always like to restrict himself to it anymore.

[bediles]

yes I think I could comprehend that cross picking (when single note on one string) and the up sweeps. The most confusing thing for me is the first four notes of the line, he actually did a hammer-on on the 3-notes string, but did a upstroke on the other string.... for me he actually acted a even-number-notes principle (regardless of the string changing), rather than the string-changing principle. But i think you are right, he internalized his stuff so deeply that he wouldn't always like to restrict himself to it anymore.

More than one way to skin a cat on the beginning of the line for sure. He seems to prefer the hammer on/upstroke on the next highest string. Yeah, unconscious for sure. I think he actually used to play all his stuff following these strict rules when he was learning the technique which is interesting
bc many folks just do something and analyze it afterwards. This eventually loosened up a bit to include more approaches esp at slower tempos. Dude has good time considering his picking isn't congruent w the beat (up beat, upstroke; down beat, down stroke) . I think bc the Hampton Hawes influence.