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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve burchfield View Post
    The first guitar organ trio version I ever heard was Jerry Hahns album Moses in the late sixties I think. What do others think about that version? Of course Cliffords would be the definitive I suppose since he wrote it. It looks like Donna Lee is a popular "look what a versatile accomplished player I am" song these days. But some swing and some dont. IMO For a stringed instrument I rather like Jacos version of Donna Lee. Gunthrie Govans ? Well you be the judge or Marcus Kings ?
    GG sounded like he was chicken pickin' on DL.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve burchfield View Post
    Well Vladan thats certainly a very original take on Joy Spring.
    Indeed.

    My Band camp

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    GG sounded like he was chicken pickin' on DL.
    I think GG's real passion is actually country guitar. At least that's what I've heard.

  5. #29

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    Christian raises a good point about being flexible in terms of what register to play a tune in. Playing in a particular register might sound good doubling some instruments but terrible with others. For example, I've found that upper register melodies can sound weirdly disconnected when playing unison with upright bass, and also may spotlight intonation conflicts with soprano sax or flute. On the other hand, some fast articulations sound much better in the upper register. Of course, it's a matter of personal taste, but the choice of register really can make a difference. Also, it may not be possible to maintain the feel of a melody over its entire range, so as the video points out, there's no shame in switching registers within the tune.
    Last edited by unknownguitarplayer; 05-29-2021 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero View Post
    I assume the "Real Book" is what my generation called the "Fake Book."
    Indeed! But since you and I got our first "Fake Books" (mine for the then-princely sum of $10 in 1959), an industry grew up around us. In addition to the half dozen or so loose leaf and spiral bound originals I gathered over the next few years, I now have 18 "Real Books" as pdfs (the 19th file in the image below is a master index of the 18 pdfs) plus iRealBook and a few others on my mobile devices.

    Hints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_old-jpgHints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_new_small-jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    After faking my way through Joy Spring my whole life, I finally decided to learn it note for note.
    However that presented a challenge, because the bridges are different in the two Real Books I have.
    The problem is that the same tune is often different across multiple real-fake books, and many are inaccurate in all of them. These books are a big help for me as a house band leader in fulfilling requests, backing guest artists, and running our jazz jams. But more than a few good players have jumped right into a tune they didn't know well, only to discover that the tune was different in each of our books. Bop has the added challenges of complex lines and subtle rhythmic eccentricities that have to be played together to sound right. Billie's Bounce is a perfect example. The feel and the flow are everything, and the whole band has to hit it right or it sounds sloppy.

    So I agree with coolvinnie: learn it by ear! Whether I look at the score first or hear it first doesn't matter to me, as long as I start with the right notes and how they're "supposed to sound". I send video links of original performances to my guys for many of the tunes we play, to make sure we're all going to play the same version. For me, little compares to the embarassment of having to restart a tune after a few bars of cacophony
    Attached Images Attached Images Hints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_new-jpg Hints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_1200-jpg Hints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_new-jpg 

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit View Post
    Indeed! But since you and I got our first "Fake Books" (mine for the then-princely sum of $10 in 1959), an industry grew up around us. In addition to the half dozen or so loose leaf and spiral bound originals I gathered over the next few years, I now have 18 "Real Books" as pdfs (the 19th file in the image below is a master index of the 18 pdfs) plus iRealBook and a few others on my mobile devices.

    Hints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_old-jpgHints on playing bop heads-fakebooks_new_small-jpg


    The problem is that the same tune is often different across multiple real-fake books, and many are inaccurate in all of them. These books are a big help for me as a house band leader in fulfilling requests, backing guest artists, and running our jazz jams. But more than a few good players have jumped right into a tune they didn't know well, only to discover that the tune was different in each of our books. Bop has the added challenges of complex lines and subtle rhythmic eccentricities that have to be played together to sound right. Billie's Bounce is a perfect example. The feel and the flow are everything, and the whole band has to hit it right or it sounds sloppy.

    So I agree with coolvinnie: learn it by ear! Whether I look at the score first or hear it first doesn't matter to me, as long as I start with the right notes and how they're "supposed to sound". I send video links of original performances to my guys for many of the tunes we play, to make sure we're all going to play the same version. For me, little compares to the embarassment of having to restart a tune after a few bars of cacophony

    Hi, N,
    Mine has a white cover with black printing, spiral bound and is in a box ,somewhere, in storage. I think I bought it in 1963-4 when I was a young saxer. It was a treasure trove of Jazz standards. It is a tattered relic, for sure.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero View Post
    It is a tattered relic, for sure.
    ……as am I

    And speaking on behalf of crusty curmudgeons everywhere, I owe a lot of what I am today (good and bad) to early experience followed by a lifetime of augmenting, correcting, clarifying, amplifying, improving, qualifying, explaining, reinterpreting, and having to unlearn what I initially thought was definitive. The bootleg charts we called fake books are subject to all of that, which does not diminish their value at all, as I see it. Much of what I learned in school turns out to have been in need of similar editing.

    I don’t think that many bebop greats intended to create enduring scores to be played forever by adoring disciples. I suspect that a lot of bop, whether written or improvised, was meant to be beyond the capability of most others to play. The “cutting contests” typified by the legend of the cymbal thrown at a young Charlie Parker by Jo Jones for poor playing at a jam were real and boppers were as elitist as Thurston Howell III. This is not new or novel - Liszt did the same thing. So cop it if you love it and reimagine it if you prefer, as long as the others playing it with you know what to expect.

    Those early fake books complemented records, and together they were the basis for my (and most others, I presume with no evidence to support me) foundation in jazz and commercial playing. Even at 12 years of age, I saw and pondered the differences between recorded and scored versions of the same tune, wondering which was “correct”. And 60+ years later, I realize that the main (and probably the only) reason for spec’ing a given version is so the band sounds right. Whether I play Mac Tough like Pat Martino does on Live at Yoshi’s or on Stone Blue is a matter of taste, not correctness.

    Today we have Real Books, and the internet gives ready access to multiple versions of everything. I treasure my hard copy tomes, but I’m happy to have all the support I can get. So I carry every book I own with me on a phone or tablet, and I can make sure everyone in the band has the same version of a tune before we play it. But my original Fake Books are treasures of memory as well as music. I’m taking them with me when I go!

    David

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    I'm quoting Bill Evans' opinion of contrafacts.
    It was Bill Evan’s opinion that Dizzy did not write original chord structures?