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Andy Brown gets a good sound playing finger-style. Sounds to me as if he uses a little bit of nail possibly.
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01-01-2021 11:34 AM
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" I studied classical guitar with Ghiglia, LaGoya and Williams, and always used nails." ronjazz
For those who may not be aware, only the cream of the crop of CG students studies with the above performers/teachers. You ,usually, have to be highly recommended by a notable teacher and perform before being accepted. Quite impressive, Ron! I met Oscar several times at the Chicago Classical Guitar concerts held at Northwestern University in Evanston,Il where he performed regularly over the years during their Winter concert series. He was friends with Richard Brune, luthier, who built my guitar and did repair work for many of the performing greats. If you know Richard, he just moved his shop from Evanston to Wauconda, Il. Richard was also a devotee of Flamenco Guitar and quite a historical scholar for the Classical Guitar. Can I ask what CG you're playing now? It's a smaller world than many think.
Play live . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. The last thing I need to tell my wife is that I need another guitar! M
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While I presume the Segovian technique is of course the bedrock of modern classical guitar technique, from my limited understanding the situation with classical guitar technique has been somewhat complicated by the Historically Informed Performances movement’s moves into the 19th century rep.
I feel some what daft saying this as there is a bone fide expert on early plucked strings on JGO (Rob) but here’s my understanding. FWIW I’ve taken lessons in classical and lute, although I can’t say I played either at a high level.
That pioneer of modern Lute playing, Julian Bream gave up playing lute as HIP refined instrument making and tecnique; he played heavy lutes with Segovian technique and of course sounded great as the master musician he undoubtedly was, but lutes became lighter and lutenists of the next generation adopted the thumb in technique found in Diana Poulton’s method, usually without nails.
Anyway, I’m not sure what the HIP ‘state of the art’ is (I think players use nails on Theorbo and Baroque Lute and a non-Segovia thumb out technique but I might be wrong) but AFAIK renaissance lute playing is done without nails. So if you are a lutenist and a modern classical guitarist you have a bit of a dilemma.
So I was quite surprised to hear David Miller, mainly known as a lutenist have no problem projecting in a hall on a 19th century small bodied guitar with gut strings and nailless technique playing Schubert with Emma Kirkby (he was using thumb-in Renaissance lute style right hand, which I don’t think any 19th C guitarists used, but I might be wrong. In any case he had no problem playing that way.); he actually credited the lower tension of the strings with helping nailless projection. I also from my own experiments I can’t say it’s as easy to use lute technique on modern nylon strings, let alone steels.
Anyway, I’ll post Brandon Acker here, as he’s a lutenist who also plays classical guitar, to my ears very nicely. But the divergences between his right hand and what I understand as classic Segovian posture are interesting, as are Rob’s. He does seem to play with nails:
I don’t know enough about the specifics of the various schools of technique, and would be interested to know more .Last edited by christianm77; 01-01-2021 at 12:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Hi, C,
He's definitely playing with nails--although a shortened version than many. Nail length on CG is determined by hand size and playing preferences. For example, many CG's with smaller hands use a longer thumb length to compensate for stretches. This may also apply to i-m-a fingers as well. Two of my former teachers ,who are both performing artists, use very long nails despite their large lands. I use a longer thumb nail with a shorter length on i-m-a since the thumb length gives me greater stretch while the shorter nails give me the bigger, rounded sound/tone I prefer. It takes years of experimentation, for some, to get the right length and it is essential to getting the sound you want. A CG is a lush, romantic instrument capable of great tonal range, beauty, and nuance. A thin, weak sound is death for a Classical guitar. Check out Bulerias' videos if you want to hear how a CG should be played in my estimation.
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. I am not ,in any way, disparaging the fine performance above. M
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Originally Posted by Marinero
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Originally Posted by Marinero
As an interesting side note, when I was studying in Spain with John Williams, he heard my jazz playing and hired me to assist him in some of his Master Classes at the University of Cordoba, saying he wanted my jazz approach to rhythm included in his teaching, much like he learned flamenco rhythms from Paco Pena. That was a truly transcendent experience!
I really like Brune's instruments as well.
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" and had two made by Lester Devoe: a negra with spruce top and rosewood back and sides, and a blanca with spruce top and cypress back and sides. Both were Lester's "Paco de Lucia" models, and both are spectacular instruments." ronjazz
Hi, R,
I went to Lester's website. I saw both of your beautiful models and they are superb. However, the Blanca is an exceptional looking instrument. What's the sound differences? Also, does Pavel play one of his instruments?
Play live . . . Marinero
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many fine finger style players
the classical vs electric to me seems more like boxing vs wrestling (and pro wrestling at that)
there is so much more you can get out of an electric..even on the clean channel and no effects..just a slight increase in volume or playing directly over the pickups can change the
tone ALOT
my fave finger style and hybrid style players
mattio mancuso .. on electric he is just amazing..any style..rock blues country fusion - he covers an Alan Holdsworth piece.. and a Weather Report tune..and he can play classical as well
jeff beck..pick or fingers
tom quayle.. hybrid picking master
as to how they get their tone..this is where what they hear is going to be very different from what you hear..
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Lots of great info/advice here for the OP (and the rest of us)!
Mick Goodrick has already been mentioned, and is one of my favorite "all fingers" players.
John is another:
and so is Kevin:
What I like about these two is their range of timbre -- they can as easily be "soft and pretty" as they can be "dirty and raunchy!"
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Originally Posted by Marinero
In group and large situations, I use a Godin Multiac nylon 7-string or a modified Antonio Aparicio blanca that my luthier made into a 7-string. Both have the RMC pickup system with synth access. With the GR-55 synth I can get good electric guitar tones from either, from a smooth L4 model to a really great Telecaster-through-tremolo setting perfect for country ballads. The synth allows me to play Broadway-Style shows with only the Godin: no lugging banjo, mandolin, or acoustic guitar. Pretty cool.
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I have had the exact opposite experience in my own playing, but my situation might be a bit different. I've been playing electric and upright bass for 30 years and only just started seriously studying guitar in the last four years.
My experience is that I sound better using finger-style for all but the most rock-oriented rhythmic playing. I use a Memphis 335 with LaBella Flatwound .15s, both pickups on and tone all the way up. I mostly use thumb, index, and middle. I'm guessing that a big reason that this works for me is that I have built up calluses over the years on all three of these fingers from bass playing.
I am also able to play single-note lines *way* faster with my fingers than with a pick. This is because I transferred over a technique I developed for playing muted lines on electric bass while maintaining speed. So I use my thumb and index, alternating between the two. Think of the standard index-middle electric bass plucking technique and just move it over one finger to thumb-index and you have the idea. Sometimes I will add the middle in there, which can be really cool for grabbing octave displaced notes within a melodic line.
When I started playing electric bass as a kid I instinctively started with this same thumb-index-middle technique. Once I started studying bass "for real" that faded away and I migrated to the standard technique. But this instinct has always been with me as is evident in how I've gravitated back to it on guitar.
Anyway, maybe the thumb-index melodic technique can give people some ideas.
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Ok, I see from another thread that the T-I method is well-known, so carry on!
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If you’re getting a scratchy sound from your nails, try filing a diagonal ramp where the diagonal ascends up and away from where your thumb is (looking down on the back of your hand). Scott Tennant has a whole section on this and right hand technique in Pumping Nylon.
For electric, you can use classical hand position or a more collapsed hand. Both work and technique is similar. See Leo Kottke for example of collapsed hand.
For me, ramped nails kept pretty short works well. I’m training myself to keep pick between index and middle fingers. This way I can switch between the different tones available. See Mateus Asato for example how to do this.
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The inevitable clip by Martin Taylor
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Nail shape and length is an entirely individual matter. It takes years to discover what works best and it may change over time. I recommend Doug Niedt's approach. He is a master musician and a world class teacher.
Play live . . . Marinero
How to Find the Best Length and Shape for Your Thumbnail
douglasniedt.com › thumbnailshapeandleng
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Originally Posted by BickertRules
It sounds awesome without any single coil noise.
I string it with Half Round strings.
The same guitar if I make a few adjustments at the amp and I can play rock 'n roll or blues
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And do you play it fingerstyle? (This Forum seems to turn anything into a Telecaster thread.)
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[Member who joined yesterday posts photograph of Telecaster lent against expensive boutique amp beside bookcase, evidence of his taste and learning]
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Originally Posted by docsteve
I went straight for a 335 with the heaviest high tension flats I could find and it gets that bell-tone sound I associate with “jazz guitar.”
For instance, that Martin Taylor guy, I love his tone in that video above… but I don’t love it as a *jazz tone*. It’s closer to something I would go for in a prog rock setting. It’s that *zing* that I assume are from his nails. I prefer that round tone that I hear from old guys like Wes, Burrell, and Martino.
But I’m not even a guitarist, so what do I know!
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Originally Posted by stringtapper
What I was trying to say is: There are other threads to showcase your guitars, teles and otherwise. While we do digress into gear questions at every corner, a connection to the original topic should be discernible. And nothing prog rock about Martin Taylor's tone IMNSHO.
PS to add to your education: Julian Lage, Tim Lerch, Ed Bickert, Ted Greene, just to name a few.
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Wow! Martin Taylor’s tone as ideal in a prog-rock setting! That was unexpected...
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Originally Posted by docsteve
1979 L5 CES - Sweden ~$7k
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