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joshd , this is the absolutly best example ive ever heard of a guitar player using lead and comping, benson with jo jones. if you are searching for this concept, here is your model to shoot for. look for the tricks in here.
you mention from one bar to the next. im not sure why you say one bar comp, one bar lead , for sure this could be a definite call responce concept . one bar goes by fast
its got a kind of "moanin " thing going on then , right ?
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05-27-2020 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by CarlD
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Thanks for the input. Actually, I have found focus in general a little problematic and I think it relates to your 'new topic' - it's too easy to switch off when practicing with a metronome. Sure I might still be on time, but I'm not really picking anything up. I find it's similar when practicing arpeggios and stuff, it can become just a mechanical exercise and even though I think I am focusing, I'm not. It's kind of like when people expect to get in shape by going to the gym, but don't actually work out ?
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Originally Posted by bonsritmos
Hahaha I love that Benson clip, not seen it before! I'm yet to go near any of his lines though!
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I can't speak for anyone else, but, my time feel is best when I maintain consciousness of my time feel.
So, the task isn't to learn to do it, it's to make it automatic. To make it the floor, not the ceiling.
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Originally Posted by bonsritmos
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But listen to the way jo jones plays guitar on the bass drum, makes it possible for George to solo at the start of his solo... He's probably do that anyway TBF as he was old school, but how many drummers do that now lol? George plays those little chord stabs nice and tight.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
So, I think this has three elements
1) hearing rhythms clearly and accurately
2) having your chops together to play accurately
3) being able to relax into it
You might have one of these qualities.
I feel I know people who have 2) and 3) and not 1), so they often float. With a good rhythm section they can sound pretty damn good because the drummer will feed them the subdivisions etc, but it can be tiring to play with because they don't have a really strong sense of where the rhythms are at.
Often they sound very good on recordings with a click etc. They can be very stylish and cool when they get a little more intention.
On the other hand more fiery people might have 1) and 2) but not feel 3). So they can drive and push and speed up even when we aren't egregiously out of time. But they can be exciting players if we get it under control.
And some players might have 1) and 3) but not quite have the articulation. So you have sloppy players with good feel... Who I respect a lot more than I used to haha.
(And there are people with great time who lean one way or the other. Lots of people say Oscar Peterson drives the tempo for instance. On the other hand Wes tends to slow bands down.... different personalities... Anyway.)
But record yourself and see what you think. My playing sounds both more in time and a lot more vibey surprisingly when I take my foot off the emotional gas in the way Hal and ... 80/20 dude? ... describe. Watch yourself playing.
Trying to create groove doesn't help at all for me... I have to be still and know.Last edited by christianm77; 05-28-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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for sure , christian, about jo jones , and the bass drum . its also like some walking bass sometimes ..
the other huge factor that brings it all together is the the great dancer
this music at its most grooviest , and in certain eras for sure, is for dancing . the beats were made for dances .
just playing for dancers needs a really firm strong groove ( i love all my associations with dancers )
that clip blows my mind , and i love if i can do duo with players who know how to be a contained rhythm section, or actualy , we are implying that together, best grooved when served up with a great dancer ( a great samba guitar player who knows , just with drums or percusion even, can hook up with a samba dancer really well )
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joshd
everything you are saying about this aproach, can be framed by "call and responce " .
you call out in a blues shout your lead, and respond with the chord in a rhythmic cadence to compliment it in the groove
the fewer notes the better
"call responce " is huge in the afro diasporic diologue . most all the grooves can be broken down into "call responce" parameters , and jazz swing is righth in there too
so , i think if you aply your mechanics like people are talking about here, and frame it with a "call responce" concept, you should be able to cop it. cop the pick up thing im talking about, and you move your center of gravity up, so , if you go back after practicing the anticipated pick up, and go for the one again, its easiar. you may even want to keep the pick up anticipation aproach for ever and not worry about the one , and be on top of the beat
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Tap your foot and sing, bareheaded, a nice version of Come Fly With Me.
Then, put on one of these ...
The Classic Frank Sinatra Hats
Start snapping your fingers and hear the Billy May band playing Frank's arrangement in your head, vamp a 3625, and keep those fingers snapping Sinatra style.
I know, that if I do that, my time feel is going to swing harder.
The issue is, next time I play the tune, which way am I going to play it?
I have to remind myself. Most likely, Billy May did not.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Joking aside, one of my aspirations with all this is to get to a standard where I can pull off a jazz hat.
I also want to be able to refer to people as 'cats' and describe things as 'hip' without it raising any eyebrows.
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Originally Posted by Joshd
Relax)).. just trying doing some music, some fun...
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Thanks for all the advice. Have been practising my timing way more. Turns out there's quite a lot wrong ?
Does anyone have any tips for counting? I noticed through all this that I cannot keep track of the bars at all unless they are telegraphed by another instrument.
As it stands, I can either count or play. Not both together ?
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Counting is like practicing anything. You have keep some things constant while working on the difficult thing.
so if you have trouble counting while you improvise, take a bop head or a lick, and work on counting through that. You might have to do a bar at a time, that's OK. Your brain will get used to it over time.
With this type of work, a lot of it is coordination. I find writing out the way it lines up with the beat can be helpful and then practice slowly.
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Originally Posted by Joshd
The Unwritten Theory of Guitar Harmolodics
Yesterday, 07:33 PM in Guitar Technique