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  1. #1

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    Hi everyone, new to these boards. Grateful for the knowledge I've gained in my short time here.

    I've started to use Ted Greene's Single Note Soloing book for daily reading practice. Nice, melodic, short and logically laid out lines for that.

    I've already come across his "rolling" technique on adjacent notes. This is a technique whereby one note is played with the tip of a finger, and a subsequent note on an adjacent string on the same fret is played with the fat part of the finger.

    For example, imagine a downward run of the notes: A (3rd string), G, (4th str), and E (4th str). Ted suggests using the first finger's tip for the A, and then sort of rolling / sliding the finger upward — creating a barre across the 4th and 3rd strings — to reach that E. In short: Ted suggests specifically not using the tip of the finger for both notes.

    Attached are three lines in the key of D that use this technique:

    Using "rolling" (flat fingers) technique on adjacent note runs a la Ted Greene?-ted-greene-jpg

    Using "rolling" (flat fingers) technique on adjacent note runs a la Ted Greene?-ted-greene-2-jpg
    It's fun to practice, but my anatomy doesn't really permit this kind of thing of quick runs. I can imagine it getting messy pretty fast, at least for me. I can't fret two notes with my pinky reliably, that's for sure.

    That aside, I'm curious to know if there are players among you who have fully adopted this technique into your playing? And if so, if you felt you had the capability naturally, or if you developed it through practice.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Yes. I've found in some circumstances it's the most practical approach, by virtue of necessity. Muting issues need addressing with this technique also.

  4. #3
    I think it's a pretty important technique, for jazz especially. I personally would go easy with making any judgments about your ability with it, if your experience with it was ZERO before now.

    I mean just think about the number of hours you've spent working on "everything else". This technique is probably one of the major culprits in perpetuating the "linear progress fallacy" with newcomers to jazz. Some things just don't work until they DO. Then, one day it just kind of pops into place. It's not linear or gradual.

  5. #4
    My quick 2 minutes on this:


    Need to pick this book up. Today is the first time I could see those images above for whatever reason. Great material. The technical aspects alone are worth learning it.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-10-2020 at 12:43 PM.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by telejw
    . This is a technique whereby one note is played with the tip of a finger, and a subsequent note on an adjacent string on the same fret is played with the fat part of the finger.
    This is a common technique when playing "in position" on the guitar. I've seen this fingering notated in classical scores.

  7. #6

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    Finger rolling is an elementary technique in all styles. But it has it's flaws. You'll generally won't get as clear an articulation and full tone as fingering each note separately. But that's much more difficult to execute then just rolling (and may be sacrificing the tone production a bit) in some situations.
    I think Lage Lund has a video where he talks about the benefits of not rolling his fingers but fretting each note separately.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 01-10-2020 at 02:16 PM.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I think it's a pretty important technique, for jazz especially. I personally would go easy with making any judgments about your ability with it, if your experience with it was ZERO before now.

    I mean just think about the number of hours you've spent working on "everything else". This technique is probably one of the major culprits in perpetuating the "linear progress fallacy" with newcomers to jazz. Some things just don't work until they DO. Then, one day it just kind of pops into place. It's not linear or gradual.
    The truth he speaks.

  9. #8

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    When the technique with the pick is bothering me I take Pat Martino advise. He said when his gave him trouble he went back the to master Johnny Smith. I find that in essence almost anything works if I simply go over the phase slow and carefully. I go strict up-down and make sure each note is full and clean. Arps across the strings and then working through tunes with changes on the arps......

    I also happen to believe that to some degree it is purely a physical gift that some have. Practice makes it better but some start out at a higher level. Many sprinters could do the same workouts and more as Usain Bolt but in the end he is going to beat you to the tape. Not that speed is the goal but just the analogy.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    My quick 2 minutes on this:


    Need to pick this book up. Today is the first time I could see those images above for whatever reason. Great material. The technical aspects alone are worth learning it.
    Cool. Thanks, Matt. I see what you mean about it sort of being a movement of the left wrist, too. That's helpful.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Finger rolling is an elementary technique in all styles. But it has it's flaws. You'll generally won't get as clear an articulation and full tone as fingering each note separately. But that's much more difficult to execute then just rolling (and may be sacrificing the tone production a bit) in some situations.
    I think Lage Lund has a video where he talks about the benefits of not rolling his fingers but fretting each note separately.
    I think if you have the option, you go with another finger. My experience is using the roll vs no viable option. This includes analyzing the technical problem in light of Kenny Werner's Effortless Mastery.

  12. #11
    Issues like string spacing, electric-vs acoustic, legato phrasing (jazz swing legato) considerations etc. are all important to this conversation. I have some classical background and appreciate that perspective, but there are very good reasons you don't see this in classical as prevalently.

  13. #12

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    "Ted suggests using the first finger's tip for the A, and then sort of rolling / sliding the finger upward — creating a barre across the 4th and 3rd strings"

    If you are thinking of this technique as creating a simultaneous barré across the two strings, you will probably not succeed in your use of this technique. As you roll off from the 3rd onto the 4th, you will usually release the 3rd string unless you specifically need to mute it. Think of your finger as a rolling pin moving over some pastry - at no point is it touching all of the pastry, it simply "rolls" from one point to another.....