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  1. #1
    Proposed study group on this book:

    Patterns for Jazz -- A Theory Text for Jazz Composition and Improvisation: Treble Clef Instruments: Jerry Coker, James Casale, Gary Campbell, Jerry Greene: 8601400411414: Amazon.com: Books


    Last week I was cycling Jimmy Rainey lick and trying to remember the different cycle patterns used in "Patterns for Jazz". Anyway, I went back and looked at this book and started playing through, and decided I'm going to work at playing through this material as a part of my weekly practice. It's not a method, and it certainly shouldn't be the ONLY thing one practices. But it's solid rudimentary material for playing traditional jazz lines technically.

    This is one of the books that initially led me to really looking at fretboard organization and technique more, because I quickly realized how hard it is to do some very basic things on the guitar, or at least to organize them systematically in multiple positions etc. I just kind of shelved it, and got some more technical things together in a basic way.

    I feel like now I can kind of see an approach which should be a lot better for systematically working through material like this. I'm basically going to work this material using E form and A form -type fingering patterns (2nd finger roots from 6th and 5th strings) on this go-round, separately for each, and then in combination, using both resultant iterations. I'm going to be using this opportunity to work on technique, swing feel and fretboard knowledge.

    I feel like this type of thing is mostly wasted if it doesn't swing . So that'll be of primary importance. These patterns very effectively and easily facilitate the swing phrasing techniques taught by Randy Vincent, in which you slide into the next downbeat whenever possible or slur etc. So we'll discuss some of that as well. I'll reference the drum genius loops I'm using, as I'd really like to steer clear of metronomes for this material which is already exercise-oriented anyway.

    So the format is this: on Monday or any day after, you post an initial "before" version and list the BPM (percentages agree cool, but for this, let's go a concrete no.), and by Sunday, you post your week ending version with week ending BPM. (Basic goals are to try to increase BPM somewhat ...and more importantly, overall feel, time and phrasing. Better to go much slower with good time/feel.)

    *******************
    The first week would be March 4-10 and we'll be posting patterns 1-4. Like the rest of the book, these are all cyclical variations of the same pattern: half step, whole step, minor 3rd, 4ths.... I'll post an example if anyone is interested in this group.

    There are suggested tempo markings for each pattern. If a particular pattern is easier for you , please post an example closer to the MINIMUM number for the beginning of the week, so as not to intimidate others fresh out of the gate. I personally think it would be cool to have folks at different levels....
    ********************

    Personally, my own plans are to work through to about page 100 over the next year or so and then possibly cycle back through with a couple of new fingering positions. I have a life and other things to do, and this isn't anything remotely like the TOTALITY of what anyone's jazz study should be anyway. So I want a reasonably comfortable pace which suits THAT perspective ...that this is just one component part.

    At the end, it would be pretty easy to reboot with two new patterns etc if someone wanted to. That's kind of the overarcing principle I'm going with right now anyway: If you use patterns which cycle into one another, you can easily build upon them. If you're solid with pattern 1 and 2, you could then add 3 and 4. If you feel less solid, you could just add 2 and work 2 and 3 for a while. different players could be doing different things at the same time or have different tempo goals etc.

    Anyway, let me know if you're interested. Simply reply: "I'm in ". Please purchase a legit copy of the book if at all possible. There are "free" versions which are always recommended on the forum, but I don't feel great about that. I'm not aware that its public domain. I'll leave that to the individual, but I would ask that you please not brag publicly about not paying the authors of this book for their work.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-01-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    ...
    The first week would be Feb 4-10 and we'll be posting patterns 1-4. Like the rest of the book, these are all cyclical variations of the same pattern: half step, whole step, minor 3rd, 4ths.... I'll post an example if anyone is interested in this group.
    March, you mean?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    March, you mean?
    Ha. Can't get anything past you! Yes!

    Can't believe it's already March . I can't even seem to get straight that it's 2019 yet.

  5. #4

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    What is the Title of the Book ? that you are proposing to work on.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    What is the Title of the Book ? that you are proposing to work on.
    Sorry. "Patterns for Jazz" is the title. I added a link to the title post.

    Starts with triads and moves on to other arps, 1-2-3-5 patterns, enclosures and other approach tones, triads etc. The later 251 lines are built on upper extensions etc.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-26-2019 at 03:35 PM.

  7. #6

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    I'm interested in this.
    I recently put a lot of music books and papers into storage. Should be able to find this easily enough.

    I've put a lot of effort into fretboard organization lately. Working through these exercises with that focus seems ideal.

    Now have an iTrack Pocket, so I can record direct with my phone and (if I choose) no room sound. As there are no backing tracks for this, that seems ideal.

    So, yeah, I'm in, Matt.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  8. #7

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    I worked through that book last year. Good stuff.

  9. #8
    Alright, Mark. I guess that makes two? Ha.

    This book was kind of the stuff of legend when I first got on the forum. I never really knew how to approach it , but now that I've been looking at it lately, I think it is a lot to teach in terms of learning to woodshed things on this admittedly confounding instrument.

    Regardless of what we're working on - in terms of transcribing , learning basic lines and vocabulary, arpeggios, scale outlines , intervals, whatever -the main hitch for many of us is always how to apply it to the fretboard. I think this book addresses a lot of this if you come at the right way, and I think it has potential of getting you a lot closer to approaching things the way other instrumentalists do. I've been applying other vocabulary from outside sources in similar ways to the way this book gets you to apply it , and it really helps with internalizing things more quickly and holding interest etc.

    Anyway, it would be cool to have a few other folks on board. For my part, I am very much interested in actually discussing thoughts on process and approaches to looking at fretboard etc. Not just a "show us what you got" kind of thing.

    Anyone else?

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Alright, Mark. I guess that makes two? Ha. ... Anyone else?
    I'm with you, so far.

  11. #10

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    I found my copy. (It was in storage.) So I'm definitely on board.

    I guess the first question for guitarists is, "In position (as much as possible) or along the neck?" Or, vertical or horizontal? Or further still, when is which best?


    The patterns moving up by half-steps starting on C major can all be played along the A string. (A-string root, I mean.) That's almost too easy! Or so it seems.

    Do we want to do all that within a position (a 4-6 fret range)?

    Maybe both?

    Thinking out loud. Wondering what others are thinking...
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I found my copy. (It was in storage.) So I'm definitely on board.

    I guess the first question for guitarists is, "In position (as much as possible) or along the neck?" Or, vertical or horizontal? Or further still, when is which best?


    The patterns moving up by half-steps starting on C major can all be played along the A string. (A-string root, I mean.) That's almost too easy! Or so it seems.

    Do we want to do all that within a position (a 4-6 fret range)?

    Maybe both?

    Thinking out loud. Wondering what others are thinking...
    Yeah. So for me, as a limiting exercise, I'm doing these from A and E ( 5th and 6th string roots). I do them separately, like all 6th string root, then 5 th... Then, I combine them as appropriate.

    Cycling possibilities are a big thing I'd like to discuss...

  13. #12

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    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
    “Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” - Alan Wilson Watts

  14. #13

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    I'm trying to convince myself to join in on this. The accountability would be good for me, but the accountability is what makes me hesitate to join, also.


    Are you intending to keep up the posting schedule for an entire year or more?

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    I'm trying to convince myself to join in on this. The accountability would be good for me, but the accountability is what makes me hesitate to join, also.


    Are you intending to keep up the posting schedule for an entire year or more?

    .
    Yes, ... But only if we do...

    These things tend to have a life of their own. Hard to say exactly what it ends up being. I could post a tentative schedule, and then we can adjust from there.

    But yes, regular schedule.

  16. #15

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    I think I'd like to try this with you guys. I've up to now been doing study groups that learn a solo, either the Jimmy Raney group, the Robert Conti group, or the chord-melody group. The pace was pretty grueling in the context of a busy life (like you guys have too!). This looks pretty doable.

    Playing already with them, I get how to do the positions going up by half-steps, but when we go up in 4ths, that's going to get us off the A and E strings, seems to me, if we are moving to the nearest 4th up.

    Any advice on that?
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  17. #16

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    I know that I shouldn't join another study group but this book looks great !!
    It is really different from other groups.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    I know that I shouldn't join another study group but this book looks great !!
    It is really different from other groups.

    It is a classic book.
    Here's a YouTube bit about the book. It was not written for guitarists. Even if one doesn't work all the way through it, it's good to know what OTHER players, especially horn players, have worked in (and how) for decades now.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  19. #18

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    O, I think there used to be a Yahoo group that had a link for band-in-a-box files for "Patterns for Jazz."

    Anyone have that?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Playing already with them, I get how to do the positions going up by half-steps, but when we go up in 4ths, that's going to get us off the A and E strings, seems to me, if we are moving to the nearest 4th up.

    Any advice on that?

    In strict position, you'll have to work off the D string as well. I think Matt was only meaning the common position for playing the scales starting with the middle finger, not just playing roots off the E and A strings.

    I think you should work it out any way that makes sense to you. That's kind of the nature of the book, anyway. I'm considering doing it strictly off the G B and E strings with octave displacement just to force myself to see roots on the higher strings.



    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    O, I think there used to be a Yahoo group that had a link for band-in-a-box files for "Patterns for Jazz."

    Anyone have that?

    I've been looking at BIAB, but the price tag and storage requirements make me hesitate. I did punch in the starting sequences into IReal pro though.


    I wonder why the authors didn't include any descending sequences. Maybe they figured 4ths covered that.
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I think I'd like to try this with you guys. I've up to now been doing study groups that learn a solo, either the Jimmy Raney group, the Robert Conti group, or the chord-melody group. The pace was pretty grueling in the context of a busy life (like you guys have too!). This looks pretty doable.

    Playing already with them, I get how to do the positions going up by half-steps, but when we go up in 4ths, that's going to get us off the A and E strings, seems to me, if we are moving to the nearest 4th up.

    Any advice on that?
    Great, Lawson!

    Yeah. I'm basically going much simpler. My personal approach is to not do them all in a single position. I'm just playing all of these in 2 fingering patterns, maybe a 3rd one at times. But basically, I'm aiming at 2 ways rather than (5 or 7) to start. Focusing more on technique on a limited number of string sets, and working on fretboard knowledge from those positions. Reg mostly plays from basic 5th or 6th string reference points this way and doesn't worry with staying in a fixed position so much. I've done a good bit of work with arpeggios and such lately in related positions several frets away and have found that I like playing with this approach a lot, at least for now. Ironically it's often easier than the alternative, though I understand the benefit and have done a good bit of that in the past as well.

    This time around, with limiting things more, I've found that this book makes more sense than it did when I was trying a different way. I feel like I can probably do it this way as a more supplemental endeavor and with less time. I don't want to spend hours a day on exercises necessarily. I feel like this book does a lot to teach you how to shed other things honestly.

    I kind of came back to this while working on a lick from that Rainey solo we learned by the way. Something about cycling things in different intervals that allows you to get more reps without mental fatigue. This is more the direction I'm looking at going:

  22. #21

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    I'd like to do this one too. I ordered my book today. should have it in a couple days. Now, I'm already spread a little thin as Frank and I are doing the Larry Carlton truefire course which I want to continue. So I'll contribute as much as I can but I dont want to abandon that other course.

    I'll be back with questions after I get my book and have a chance to see it. I'm still trying to understand the relevance of practicing a pattern out of the context of a chord?

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    I'd like to do this one too. I ordered my book today. should have it in a couple days. Now, I'm already spread a little thin as Frank and I are doing the Larry Carlton truefire course which I want to continue. So I'll contribute as much as I can but I dont want to abandon that other course.

    I'll be back with questions after I get my book and have a chance to see it. I'm still trying to understand the relevance of practicing a pattern out of the context of a chord?
    Yeah. It's not out of chord context. It's simply playing chord patterns in all keys. Chord symbols are the reference for all of the patterns. II-V patterns are the focus of later patterns...

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Patterns for Jazz -- A Theory Text for Jazz Composition and Improvisation: Treble Clef Instruments: Jerry Coker, James Casale, Gary Campbell, Jerry Greene: 8601400411414: Amazon.com: Books

    Last week I was cycling Jimmy Rainey lick and trying to remember the different cycle patterns used in "Patterns for Jazz". Anyway, I went back and looked at this book and started playing through, and decided I'm going to work at playing through this material as a part of my weekly practice. It's not a method, and it certainly shouldn't be the ONLY thing one practices. But it's solid rudimentary material for playing traditional jazz lines technically.

    This is one of the books that initially led me to really looking at fretboard organization and technique more, because I quickly realized how hard it is to do some very basic things on the guitar, or at least to organize them systematically in multiple positions etc. I just kind of shelved it, and got some more technical things together in a basic way.

    I feel like now I can kind of see an approach which should be a lot better for systematically working through material like this. I'm basically going to work this material using E form and A form -type fingering patterns (2nd finger roots from 6th and 5th strings) on this go-round, separately for each, and then in combination, using both resultant iterations. I'm going to be using this opportunity to work on technique, swing feel and fretboard knowledge.

    I feel like this type of thing is mostly wasted if it doesn't swing . So that'll be of primary importance. These patterns very effectively and easily facilitate the swing phrasing techniques taught by Randy Vincent, in which you slide into the next downbeat whenever possible or slur etc. So we'll discuss some of that as well. I'll reference the drum genius loops I'm using, as I'd really like to steer clear of metronomes for this material which is already exercise-oriented anyway.

    So the format is this: on Monday or any day after, you post an initial "before" version and list the BPM (percentages agree cool, but for this, let's go a concrete no.), and by Sunday, you post your week ending version with week ending BPM. (Basic goals are to try to increase BPM somewhat ...and more importantly, overall feel, time and phrasing. Better to go much slower with good time/feel.)

    *******************
    The first week would be March 4-10 and we'll be posting patterns 1-4. Like the rest of the book, these are all cyclical variations of the same pattern: half step, whole step, minor 3rd, 4ths.... I'll post an example if anyone is interested in this group.

    There are suggested tempo markings for each pattern. If a particular pattern is easier for you , please post an example closer to the MINIMUM number for the beginning of the week, so as not to intimidate others fresh out of the gate. I personally think it would be cool to have folks at different levels....
    ********************

    Personally, my own plans are to work through to about page 100 over the next year or so and then possibly cycle back through with a couple of new fingering positions. I have a life and other things to do, and this isn't anything remotely like the TOTALITY of what anyone's jazz study should be anyway. So I want a reasonably comfortable pace which suits THAT perspective ...that this is just one component part.

    At the end, it would be pretty easy to reboot with two new patterns etc if someone wanted to. That's kind of the overarcing principle I'm going with right now anyway: If you use patterns which cycle into one another, you can easily build upon them. If you're solid with pattern 1 and 2, you could then add 3 and 4. If you feel less solid, you could just add 2 and work 2 and 3 for a while. different players could be doing different things at the same time or have different tempo goals etc.

    Anyway, let me know if you're interested. Simply reply: "I'm in ". Please purchase a legit copy of the book if at all possible. There are "free" versions which are always recommended on the forum, but I don't feel great about that. I'm not aware that its public domain. I'll leave that to the individual, but I would ask that you please not brag publicly about not paying the authors of this book for their work.
    Do we have our first assignment/deadline yet ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    Do we have our first assignment/deadline yet ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah. So, we'll post a version of patterns 1-4 by Sunday, Mar 10, per description in post#1 here. I'll make a dedicated thread for that. Post a preliminary "rough" or beginning version if you like, to break the ice. (It's subtle, but I feel it's important to have a starting reference for some of us. If you're measuring your own progress against an earlier starting point, it's different from just comparing yours vs everyone else's. It can be intimidating, when early versions start coming in if the only comparison is against another player etc.)

    Each group of patterns are basically variations of each other. So I feel like it's reasonable to do the group of variations together. Roughly 2 pages per week, not counting theory text etc.

    So, everyone, tell me what you think about this pace as a starting point. I'll try to post a rough schedule through the first hundred pages or so here today , and I'll start a new dedicated thread for March. Is dividing things into separate months for threads a reasonable way to divide up?

    Thoughts appreciated.

  26. #25

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    hey Matt... looks cool... Let me know if I can help

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    hey Matt... looks cool... Let me know if I can help
    Wow. Yeah. I'd be really interested in just your approach to vocabulary generally.

    From the things I can see that you do, it looks like you mostly approach things from the three chord positions that you've always talked about: with basic voicings having roots on the 6th 5th and 4th strings.

    Beyond those basics, you're mostly thinking about things later in terms of extended diatonic relationships, like playing Bm7 (Phrygian) for G major seven ...or Em7 (Aeolian) for Gma7? Am I seeing that correctly?

    .....Talking purely diatonic at the moment of course....

    Anyway, I'm basically approaching the vocabulary in this book, this time anyway, from these positions:
    *from chords with root on the 6th string/2nd finger,
    *from chords with 5th on the sixth string second finger, and
    *from chords with 3rd on the 6th string "2nd finger" (asterisk) :-).

    What do you think about this approach? This book is pretty specifically limited in approach. Mostly from diatonic 251, in major.

    (Outside of this book specifically, I'm mainly working on doing things like transposing vocabulary to different chord types/map modes etc., but this once had a more specific focus.)

    Always appreciate your input. Thanks.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. It's not out of chord context. It's simply playing chord patterns in all keys. Chord symbols are the reference for all of the patterns. II-V patterns are the focus of later patterns...

    Okay. I understand now. I read the introduction and the authors specifically state that it is up to the student to supply context and the student is expected to use other tools for improvisation when applying these patterns, including rhythmic and melodic variation. (For example: Cma7 arpeggio over Am7 chord)

    Cool! I'm in.

  29. #28

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    Yea sounds great, and most of the 6th, 5th 4th references are just mechanical references, right, to help make the guitar fretboard easily understandable and eventually just one big pattern that changes with whatever reference I choose. Playing II V I, triads, 7th or 9th chords, arpeggios etc...

    And yes... I use extended and organized harmonic relationships...for creating melodic and harmonic relationships to help me develop music... The extended diatonic relationship thing... is just expanding the use of Relative harmony.... like the relative Minor of Gmaj is Emin..... so I use Diatonic functional relationships to to also include... Bmin.

    And then yes... I expand the application with use of Modal and Function concepts.

    Which is pretty straight ahead... the two relative minors of Gmaj are Emin and Bmin.... and that is Tonic Diatonic Ionian.

    If use Tonic Lydian... The Tonic Relative chords of Gmaj Lydian... with the physical organization of Tonic Relative being Down and Up a Diatonic Third....the Relative chords would be...Emin Dorian and Bmin Aeolian.... as comparred to...
    Tonic Ionian which was.... Gmaj Ionian with B- phrygian and E- aeloian...

    Like you said above... anyway you just finish the basic harmonic physical tonal and modal mechanical relationships.... and then after you get them together.... just like learning positions and fingerings.... you start to expand again using different musical relationships, develop them, with use of subs, chord patterns... all the usual BS and presto.... you have an expanded bag of mechanically organized musical tricks.

    The reasons I always push the technical fretboard BS, which the basis of this thread helps address is that if you don't have the fretboard together.... it's really difficult to expand musical concepts when playing.

    Anyway... anyway sound fun, thanks

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    Okay. I understand now. I read the introduction and the authors specifically state that it is up to the student to supply context and the student is expected to use other tools for improvisation when applying these patterns, including rhythmic and melodic variation. (For example: Cma7 arpeggio over Am7 chord)

    Cool! I'm in.
    Yeah. I would read "context" as meaning real-world progressions and tunes etc.

  31. #30

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    This booked taught me a lot!

  32. #31

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    Some of those exercises include directions to go back and redo the previous exercises with the new pattern. Is that just going to be added into what gets covered in a week or stretch things out another week?

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  33. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Some of those exercises include directions to go back and redo the previous exercises with the new pattern. Is that just going to be added into what gets covered in a week or stretch things out another week?

    .
    Thanks for reminding me of this. I'll try to get a tentative schedule together for March up tonight.

  34. #33
    Started a March thread for patterns for jazz...

    I feel like this schedule is pretty conservative for March . Once we're in a groove with the basics of cycling these patterns in the four different interval groups and come to terms with our own basic approaches to how we want to deal with things, in terms of number of positions etc., I feel like we might could go a little faster .

    The first four patterns, after all, are basically one pattern, simply cycled different ways. In the future, it might look a little more like basic benchmarks or simply picking which cycle you want to post for a given week etc. Anyway, we can cross that bridge in a couple of weeks.

    Please give general thoughts about thread direction possibilities or corrections in this thread if you can , or p.m. me. Thanks.

  35. #34

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    My copy finally hit the mailbox. (Paper version.)

    I'm in!

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Started a March thread for patterns for jazz...

    I feel like this schedule is pretty conservative for March .
    This seems best. For one big thing, even though several of us are already up and running with this, we want others who are just hearing about it (or just getting the book) to feel they aren't so far behind they've missed the train altogether.

    There is always time to start!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    This seems best. For one big thing, even though several of us are already up and running with this, we want others who are just hearing about it (or just getting the book) to feel they aren't so far behind they've missed the train altogether.

    There is always time to start!
    Absolutely! The more the merrier. I am benefiting by seeing others approach this from their perspective. After all, it's how we USE this stuff that matters the most so sharing ideas is critical.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    Absolutely! The more the merrier. I am benefiting by seeing others approach this from their perspective. After all, it's how we USE this stuff that matters the most so sharing ideas is critical.

    Yes! And this isn't a one-and-done book. One can return to it after a change in picking, or fingering, or after time off due to injury or illness and get one's sh*t back together.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  39. #38

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    I discovered this email thread yesterday. I’ve never joint a study group before, but this one seems doable.

    i ordered the book and as soon as I get it I’ll start practicing to catch up with you.

    So, I’m in too.

  40. #39

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    I have a question about this. I notice all the patterns start with "C" but I'm wondering if say, on a cycle of 4ths pattern, is there value in starting from, say, Ab?
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  41. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I have a question about this. I notice all the patterns start with "C" but I'm wondering if say, on a cycle of 4ths pattern, is there value in starting from, say, Ab?
    I think so. It's been a while since I've read through the intro, but variation is mentioned there. I like a lot of the rhythmic variations which have been posted. I would think of the starting key as mostly arbitrary.

    But in terms of limiting variables when practicing something new, I would probably default to starting at a comfortable place if it's something I'm particularly less familiar with.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I have a question about this. I notice all the patterns start with "C" but I'm wondering if say, on a cycle of 4ths pattern, is there value in starting from, say, Ab?

    The way I've been working the material, once you do it in one position/key, every other position/key just uses the same cycle of fingerings. I think mentally/visually it would make a difference though.

    I don't know in terms of horn playing, though. I think the point for a horn player would be to learn to move from C to Db, D, Eb and F respectively. Once you have those moves down, it doesn't matter if it's the start of a cycle or in the middle of a cycle.

    .

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa