The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Well,I'm new here,hello, I don't know if there is a post already talking about this, I didn't found it.
    I like to play with my thumb like Wes,I think it sounds better than with a pick,but my problem is that with this technique,while playing single notes,I'm not able to mute strings as I would do if I were playing with a pick because of the hand positioning.Anyone has some ideas about this? How did Wes play that clearly?

    I'm talking about the strings above the strings I'm playing,because the ones that are down I can mute them
    Thank you

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm not sure it should matter that much whether you use a pick or thumb (I mainly use pick but sometimes thumb). Either way you need to figure out a way of muting any unwanted strings if they are loud enough to be causing trouble.

    I don't really think about this much, it's all a bit automatic, but I suspect I tend to mute the lower pitch strings with the base of my right hand while using my left hand in some way to mute any strings which are higher in pitch.

  4. #3

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    Check out Wes' left hand, his wrist position and fingering choices are a lot of what makes his right hand thumb work as well as it does.

    PK

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Stitt
    Well,I'm new here,hello, I don't know if there is a post already talking about this, I didn't found it.
    I like to play with my thumb like Wes,I think it sounds better than with a pick,but my problem is that with this technique,while playing single notes,I'm not able to mute strings as I would do if I were playing with a pick because of the hand positioning.Anyone has some ideas about this? How did Wes play that clearly?

    I'm talking about the strings above the strings I'm playing,because the ones that are down I can mute them
    Thank you
    You know I find this a bit of an issue with my right hand technique

    Wes used a pretty flat fingered thumb over fretting technique. It’s possible he did a lot of muting with his fretting hand. An L5 would have a strong desire to burst into sound at gig volumes, so probably necessary to some extent.

  6. #5

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    I don't know how you can mute the strings above where you're playing!

    Why are they sounding at all?

  7. #6
    String above, below, and between can and SHOULD be muted with left hand fingers. Turn the volume up (and even the gain), and your ears well pretty quickly tell you're fingers what needs doing on this. Backs of fingers for strings below and tip of the index for string above etc.

    It's NOT an analytical thought process. It's just time spent practicing. Simply put the time in until automatic, and you'll never have to think about it again. Doesn't take that long. Just do it for a few minutes every time you pick up the instrument. The muting is the easy part. What to play takes longer...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I don't know how you can mute the strings above where you're playing!

    Why are they sounding at all?
    Hardest to deal with is because your guitar is right in front of the amp and it starts feeding back on open strings. Obviously much more of a problem on resonant archtops

    Quite often because my technique is slightly inaccurate that day (usually not enough time to warm up my chops/haven’t practiced for a couple of days.)

    Not such a problem if you don’t use a floating wrist technique

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    String above, below, and between can and SHOULD be muted with left hand fingers. Turn the volume up (and even the gain), and your ears well pretty quickly tell you're fingers what needs doing on this. Backs of fingers for strings below and tip of the index for string above etc.

    It's NOT an analytical thought process. It's just time spent practicing. Simply put the time in until automatic, and you'll never have to think about it again. Doesn't take that long. Just do it for a few minutes every time you pick up the instrument. The muting is the easy part. What to play takes longer...

    This is the way... and yes, there's no analytical process to it. You just listen for it and let your hands work it out themselves exactly how to make it go away. Both left and right hands will work together, sort of "underneath" the level of fretting and picking, to damp any unwanted strings, both open and even any fretted but unwanted ones due to some chord fingering artifacts, etc. They will figure out multiple ways in various situations - all totally transparent, unconscious, natural, effortless, and effective, even when playing something novel for the first time.

    However, if you decide to learn a radical change in technique, for example switching from three fingers to four on the finger board or switching from George Benson picking to Chuck Wayne picking, then expect to lose some ground on the auto-damping development for a while, until the hands catch up with learning how to damp the new technique.

  10. #9

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    Ha, that's why I never really changed my technique. Left hand muting helps, but right hand palm muting is Electric Guitar 101 basic... Maybe not if you got into jazz right away with certain teachers, maybe. But I didn't, and I never changed my wrist on top of the bridge technique- so again, remind me the benefits of Benson or Gypsy picking?

  11. #10

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    As said by previous posters, fretting hand muting. Wes also uses a pretty broad stroke with the right hand hitting all strings, not just the ones the octave is on, resulting in that thick, full sound. When playing say on the first and third string, he still plucks the bass strings with his right hand, and mutes them with his fretting hand. Muting via the second and third finger and maybe one string with the first finger positioning of the fretting hand. He doesn't use the left thumb to mute. Many players don't strum that heavy, so less muting is needed, but this results in a more refined sound, different then Wes (viable also of course). And finally there is the technique of finger picking the octaves, which gives yet another sound, and lets you practice the fretting hand without worrying about muting.

    And personally I found playing octaves with first and fourth finger on all string sets helpful, as the position of the hand is more consistent. I use the second and third fingers, which pass over the string playing the bass octave note, careful not to mute it, to mute the bass strings over it.

    Practice slow melodies moving up and down on a single set of strings. Like power chords, by the time the fingers lock to play octaves successfully, if you pay attention to the muting part, you'll have it down. The key is to practice a bit of octaves every day, it is not really that difficult of a technique once you start using it. And don't forget, Wes could play all these octave runs and lines using full chords too! Talking about long term goals for all of us!
    Last edited by Alter; 12-02-2018 at 04:37 AM.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Ha, that's why I never really changed my technique. Left hand muting helps, but right hand palm muting is Electric Guitar 101 basic... Maybe not if you got into jazz right away with certain teachers, maybe. But I didn't, and I never changed my wrist on top of the bridge technique- so again, remind me the benefits of Benson or Gypsy picking?
    Well I did ‘gypsy picking’ because I had a bee in my bonnet about being able to project acoustically and ‘do it properly’ - which I can, but I don’t think it’s terribly important in retrospect.

    I do like the tone it gives for swing stuff on electric guitar.

    My conclusion is that there is no one technique that will prepares you for all eventualities.... in general the muting thing isn’t too much of a problem if I warm up, play accurately and set my amp up in helpful place, and don’t play any fusion gigs lol

    I have never had a regular teacher for jazz. All of this is self inflicted.

  13. #12

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    That said Jimi Hendrix was a floating picker, so he must have had his left hand muting down pat given the volume levels he was playing at. Again - flat fingered technique....

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Ha, that's why I never really changed my technique. Left hand muting helps, but right hand palm muting is Electric Guitar 101 basic... Maybe not if you got into jazz right away with certain teachers, maybe. But I didn't, and I never changed my wrist on top of the bridge technique- so again, remind me the benefits of Benson or Gypsy picking?
    Right hand palm muting on the bridge is only one class of ways to mute strings. I never did that - my right hand muting is both base of thumb and fingers none of which are even close to the bridge. Virtually all my picked wound strings include a little right hand muting at the instant of picking to deepen the tone and smooth the attack of single notes, double stops, and chords. Plain strings may get a slight touch from my index or thumb holding the pick to control their articulation similarly. Left hand always contributes muting unwanted strings as well.

    I taught myself early on what I found out much later was Chuck Wayne style economy picking with clockwise pick slant (rotation around the pick's semi-major axis), zero pick angle (rotation around the pick's semi-minor axis), very little wrist motion, mostly finger and thumb flexing (circle/scalpel picking, but I don't move the pick in its plane, I move the pick's plane like a flat picker). When guitarist strangers in the studio or on stage see me playing they ask, because it just doesn't look like my hand is moving, looks mysterious...

    But the minimal hand motion is the enabling form of my comprehensive muting technique. Both Benson picking and gypsy jazz picking are very floaty approaches that somewhat limit the proximity and position possibilities of the picking hand to the strings, so often more of your muting load is transferred to the left hand, or you wrap your girlfriend's hair scrunchy around the nut, or you just ignore muting and hope any artifacts don't rise above the noise floor.

  15. #14

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    What ever your issue is, a more expensive guitar and/or amp is not the problem or solution. There seems to be two topics going on at once here, feedback of open strings and the sounding of unwanted notes set in motion from your fretting hand. The advice from Alter is excellent.
    If you've not seen this video of Wes before, check it out and see if you can catch a glimpse of how he did it. Fwiw, it looks and sounds to me like he used very low action his guitar.