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If I can't remember them, they're probably cutesy crap that'd work fine in a solo arange mentioned but are impractical for real use.
I'm simple, I probably use about 20 shapes total...I just know that a lot of them can work as multiple things.
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11-18-2018 10:43 AM
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I probably have 5 + pages of chord voicing's that C. Banacos gave me. Just the notes. No fingerings, as he wasn't a guitar player. He was teaching me music. It was up to me to figure out the best way to play them. I would get at least one new voicing a week to learn in all key's. I must admit though, I did make my own custom chord blocks showing the written notes on staff, and a chord block with my chosen fingerings. A lot of the voicing's don't even include the root note. It's assumed which makes it a little/lot more confusing at times
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How many of them do you remember? Without too much mental searching, that is.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Last edited by PMB; 11-19-2018 at 02:01 AM.
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Yea... I have all the basic voicings I use notated out... most of them are from 40 and 50 years ago. They have expanded because of more and different common practice.... more use of MM and Har. Maj.
A big difference between most guitarist and myself is... I use voicings and different types of lead lines to create comping parts.
Basically any voicing... (chord grip, chord, what ever you want to label what you play when you see or hear a chord), can become any other chord, as long as the harmonic organization can be organized to reflect the harmonic implication.
So when comping I'm basically playing a lead line,(there are a few types), and use voicings that reinforce that melodic line with harmonic content. That harmonic content is generally just playing common practice chord patterns that reflect the style I'm playing, the chart or music etc...
I don't play chords.... I play voicings that can have many harmonic... tonal references....
Vanilla example,
X X 5 5 5 7... can be,
Cmaj7 or any C Ionian or Lydian etc.. chord
Amin9 etc
D9sus or F#-7b5 etc...
etc...
So when you play with musical analysis organization(s) and possible analysis.... a chord becomes a complete harmonic reference, seven note scale, mode... 5 note, 4 note.... The relationship of the chord notated or what you want to play... can have many possible References.... that voicing above can become many different chords.... what it actually is.... would be the context of how I use it and and what The Reference is.....simple version, what I decide is the Root. And if I'm using it in a collection of voivings.... a chord pattern etc... How i want the voicing to function within that collection of voicings or chord pattern.
Generally jazz isn't just basic chords.... it's usually chord patterns etc.... collections of voicings with tonal or modal references.... Root motion with an implied harmonic organization.
It's not that complicated.... Your playing a 12 bar blues.... in Bb, 1st 4 bars
/ Bb7 ............../ Bb7............................................... ...................../ Eb7................../ Eb7..../ becomes
X 5 6 5 6 X ....../ X X 1 1 1 3 - X X 6 5 3 6 - X X 6 7 8 8 - X X 6 6 6 8 / X X 5 5 5 7 ......../ etc...
This is vanilla but that voicing is used 3 times and when one plays... could be used more etc...
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Originally Posted by Reg
I'm kidding. (Completely serious though).
By the way, you promised blues voicings from melodic minor a while back. :-) would be cool. Thanks.
All the best.
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Originally Posted by znerken
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Hey Matt... I don't know....I use to post a lot. I'm around and will have some time this week.... I'll post the blues comp organization things. That simple example in above post is one of the basic blue note chord patterns that can be applied to almost any tune or standard to create a blues feel using modal interchange and subs with MM.... not the vanilla version I tabbed out, but Tonic- Subdominant harmonic motion... which personally is what blues is almost all about in jazz contexts. The I V thing also works, but is much more traditional... classical, blues and rock sound. (not bad or wrong), I also use all the time but I V motion is not as subtle... more in your face....
Using dominant chords and chord patterns.... in sub-dominant applications is much hipper, many more possibilities etc.... but....
yea...you do need to have comping skills and something to use those comping performance skills with.... organized voicings which become chords or chord patterns with different applications... applications become performance skills.
So yea... I'll dig up some of my chord voicing sheets.... they're all old school notation... so I'll punch them into some type of tab or fretboard pictures.
yea John.... and what eventually happens is your able to actually go to the library in real time. It's really not that difficult to actually be performing and.... think about what you want to do, even while interacting with other musicians and the music.
You need to start somewhere... and just throwing lots of voicings at the wall and keep the ones that stick is an approach, and as you said... somewhat the standard approach.... it's also the reason most guitarist suck, right.
If one takes the time to actually have organizations of application.... technically, styles etc... the use of common practice styles, and construction organization....( the organization of notes in the voicings)... and instead of one library of sounds.... you have at least a few.... when you begin to actually learn how to comp in jazz styles.... when you play...your able to improvise comping parts.... Somewhat like one does when they're soloing.
I guess one does need to start by memorizing some basic common patterns and styles.... I basically learned how to comp while playing gigs.... there wasn't really much written materials around. MB and some basic cowboy and caged chord charts. ... who cares... I'll post some examples. My approach is organized and works well.... It is pretty simple, I'm a very straight player. The voicings aren't what make comping work or sound great....
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I think Reg has done quite a few ‘comping’ videos on his YouTube channel, on different tunes, I like watching those. I know most of the chords he uses, it’s what he does with them and the timing/rhythm that’s really inspiring.
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Guitar is much about fingering and shpes so there are basic chord shapes one should learn... but I think it is somewhere at the beginning..
Farther on it is development of musical knowledge and relization of it on the fretboard.
But most of all it is important to practice harmonic changes and progressions... different variations of some typical turnaround...
First it may see, a bit mechanical but eventually it will get get loose and free and the attention will more on the overall harmonic sound/function or voice-leading - rather than a chord-shape...
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[QUOTE=Reg;912911] yea John.... and what eventually happens is your able to actually go to the library in real time. It's really not that difficult to actually be performing and.... think about what you want to do, even while interacting with other musicians and the music.
You need to start somewhere... and just throwing lots of voicings at the wall and keep the ones that stick is an approach, and as you said... somewhat the standard approach.... it's also the reason most guitarist suck, right.
[QUOTE/]
I like to think I suck for an entirely different and unique set of reasons cause I'm special ...
Originally Posted by Reg
I posted what I did in reaction to the OP, who seemed to be saying that one should literally write all the voicings one can come up with in a notebook, and then somehow refer to that notebook when playing.
This makes me think of a book like Ted Green's Chord Chemistry -- that book has a bazillion different voicings and does the hard work of writing them down in an organized way. But the real value of it is the way Ted Greene explains the logic and organization of chords. If you understand that, and get a relatively small number of grips worked out, you're better off than if you memorize every voicing in that book but don't learn the logic of how to apply them.
JohnLast edited by John A.; 11-21-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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chord organization..I think is a must if you are going to make any progress in understanding harmonic movement/voice leading etc
back when..I began to "rip apart chords"..much like the diagram in one of the posts..and that was ok but it was isolated..I knew ONE chord..when I discovered "Greene's chord chemistry I realized something had to be done to ingest this amount of information..and after some time and actually studying with Ted .. the only way to tame the beast was take small bites and chew thoroughly...
Learning chord inversions and their functions was what made the most musical sense to me..and my ear....basic triad inversions on all sets of strings--in all keys opened the fretboard in a new way and I began to hear the harmonic underpinnings to alot of songs .. and mixing in all the harmonized degrees of the major and minor diatonic scales opened more doors..and of course converting all this into four note chords led to "jazz harmony" and beyond..yep..it took several years to feel just comfortable in the key of Eb as it was in C standard and some of the fingerings took alot of work to "smooth out" but it worked and the most important part of this kind of study was how to "hear' a progression and where its going .. is it going to the tonic or away form it..being able to hear harmonic movement and know what chord degrees are being used .. scale degree..symmetric, chromatic or diationic movement and the multi flavored altered dominant
and then the experimental study of all this-mix & match..meshing two keys together .. C and Eb (diminished movement) C and E (augmented movement) C and D minor..Diatonic..and all the possible D minor functions--ii7 in C..iii7 in Bb ..vi7 in F..or the chords/modes in the melodic/harmonic scales..and the substitutions of all these..
these days when I teach.. all my topics are prefaced with the importance of organization of the material in a way that can be accessed with ease
I would be amazed if top notch players just used a "random" style to access harmonic material..but then..I am amazed by many things these days
There's a reason why Eric Alexander is such a...
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