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  1. #1

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    Charlie Christian, Sco, Bill Frisell, and I'm sure I missed a few, all used them in their solos. I love it, I think they can really add some grit and balls to your playing, not to mentioned give a distinctive blues feel...

    Anybody still uses this technique? How about any modern jazz cats, I don't think I hear it, but I could be wrong!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Barney Kessel, Johnny Smith, Jim Hall, Lenny Breau, Ed Bickert used them a lot, so there are several more. Peter Bernstein and Julian Lage both employ double stops.

  4. #3

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    Are you talking about whole solos with double-stops, or just throwing them into some phrases? Don't most guys throw in a DS every now and then? Who doesn't? Any two intervals at once, including octaves would qualify.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by max chill
    Are you talking about whole solos with double-stops, or just throwing them into some phrases? Don't most guys throw in a DS every now and then? Who doesn't? Any two intervals at once, including octaves would qualify.
    Throwing them into phrases is what I mean. Who doesn't? Like I said, when I hear modern jazz guys, I don't ever notice they do. Julian Lage does probably, he's more connected to the blues than others.

    Octaves, yea, technically, but I meant other intervals, thirds, fourths, tritones... You know, greasy blues style.

  6. #5

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    Pat martino!


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  7. #6

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    Wes!

  8. #7

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    I think I'm missing what you mean by double stops, because every player I know combines single notes and dyads, in all interval varieties. Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Ben Monder, anyone from Jim Hall's tradition... and that's anyone including Sco, Friz, Mick, Ed Bikert, Holdsworth, even Jaco. It's a part of the language of guitar playing as far as I've known. But maybe I've misunderstood what this means.
    Who's modern that you've listened to that doesn't use double stops? Help me understand the sound you're referring to. It's like a distortion pedal, some players use it a bit, some just a little, some have that sound as an option they rarely use but it's a part of the language at some point for many.

    David





  9. #8

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    Modern, blues, double-stops.

    Solo starts at 4:18.
    Double-stops at 6:05. Note the crowd response.



    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 11-26-2017 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #9

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    George Benson.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Modern, blues, double-stops.

    Solo starts at 4:18.
    Double-stops at 6:05. Note the crowd response.



    Yea, that's pretty much what im talking about, DS used with rhythmic accents, like jump blues players would do.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I think I'm missing what you mean by double stops, because every player I know combines single notes and dyads, in all interval varieties. Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Ben Monder, anyone from Jim Hall's tradition... and that's anyone including Sco, Friz, Mick, Ed Bikert, Holdsworth, even Jaco. It's a part of the language of guitar playing as far as I've known. But maybe I've misunderstood what this means.
    Who's modern that you've listened to that doesn't use double stops? Help me understand the sound you're referring to. It's like a distortion pedal, some players use it a bit, some just a little, some have that sound as an option they rarely use but it's a part of the language at some point for many.

    David




    Modern players like all those Kriesberg, Lund, Gilad... You know, trendy guitar jazz, I dont hear it from them. But maybe Im just not aware?

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Charlie Christian, Sco, Bill Frisell, and I'm sure I missed a few, all used them in their solos. I love it, I think they can really add some grit and balls to your playing, not to mentioned give a distinctive blues feel...

    Anybody still uses this technique? How about any modern jazz cats, I don't think I hear it, but I could be wrong!
    Plenty of players use two notes together, dyads etc.

    But you mean, bluesy greasy double stops right?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Yea, that's pretty much what im talking about, DS used with rhythmic accents, like jump blues players would do.
    Yeah bringing it home. Double stops are just one aspect of that. The 80s gen - Stern, Metheny, Frisell and of course Sco they all do it to some extent, not all the time, but sometimes.

    Lage Lund's a funny one because his command of language is so absolute that he kind of tweaks everything he does to be one step sidewise from what you expecting - transcribe him on standards and you really see it. Great artistry in that, but I have to be in the mood. It's ultimate in dry Scandy wit translated to guitar. He plays how he is.

    Anyway.... Yeah I was having this discussion about 'where has the blues gone?' in jazz.... A lot of younger players seem embarrassed by it...

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    But you mean, bluesy greasy double stops right?
    Exactly!

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah bringing it home. Double stops are just one aspect of that. The 80s gen - Stern, Metheny, Frisell and of course Sco they all do it to some extent, not all the time, but sometimes.

    Lage Lund's a funny one because his command of language is so absolute that he kind of tweaks everything he does to be one step sidewise from what you expecting - transcribe him on standards and you really see it. Great artistry in that, but I have to be in the mood. It's ultimate in dry Scandy wit translated to guitar. He plays how he is.

    Anyway.... Yeah I was having this discussion about 'where has the blues gone?' in jazz.... A lot of younger players seem embarrassed by it...
    I guess 'where has the blues gone in jazz' would be a better title, but then we would be discussing all aspects of it, including string bending, which is cool, but could be show offy... But there is something about DB, it's nasty, in your face statement, very bad ass, crowd loves it! As long as it's not overdone, I miss it if I dont hear it.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Throwing them into phrases is what I mean. Who doesn't? Like I said, when I hear modern jazz guys, I don't ever notice they do. Julian Lage does probably, he's more connected to the blues than others.

    Octaves, yea, technically, but I meant other intervals, thirds, fourths, tritones... You know, greasy blues style.
    Being a bluesier guitarist with jazz seasoning, I don't think there's any better way to add grease to the groove than a few half-step-bent double-stops.

    I don't remember the song titles, but a buddy waaaaay back in the day gave me a mix-tape with a couple of Grant Green songs on it where he put that technique to good use. Far and away the highlights on that tape. Don't overdo it, though!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
    Being a bluesier guitarist with jazz seasoning, I don't think there's any better way to add grease to the groove than a few half-step-bent double-stops.

    I don't remember the song titles, but a buddy waaaaay back in the day gave me a mix-tape with a couple of Grant Green songs on it where he put that technique to good use. Far and away the highlights on that tape. Don't overdo it, though!
    Def dont over do it, it's good as a spice. Playing long endless single lines is like noodles, so you wanna add a bit of hot sauce and salt to it.

  19. #18

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    For me it's all about this one

    10
    9
    x
    x
    x

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Def dont over do it, it's good as a spice. Playing long endless single lines is like noodles, so you wanna add a bit of hot sauce and salt to it.
    ... and still want to avoid being cliché chili, all burn and no flavor.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    For me it's all about this one

    10
    9
    x
    x
    x
    So on a 5-string banjo?

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    So on a 5-string banjo?
    Theory nazi

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    For me it's all about this one

    10
    9
    x
    x
    x
    That's the ultimate one, a show stopper. But yeah, upgrade to 6 string, and you're in business.

  24. #23

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    Kenny Burrell !!!

  25. #24

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    Only me, but these come with a lot of double-stops:




  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    That's the ultimate one, a show stopper. But yeah, upgrade to 6 string, and you're in business.
    He was getting so lowdown, bluesy'n'greasy he broke a string.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    He was getting so lowdown, bluesy'n'greasy he broke a string.
    Double-stops in jazz?

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by janjakut
    Only me, but these come with a lot of double-stops:



    That's very pretty, thanks, but really not what I'm talking about.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    So on a 5-string banjo?
    No, Keef's five string tele...

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    For me it's all about this one

    10
    9
    x
    x
    x
    So, as a relative newbie (longtime bassist that picked up the guitar a couple of years ago), it would be cool to see some other examples of the "classics" - and I mean the greasy/bluesy double stop licks ala Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, etc. I've searched the web, but never found a good compilation of the most common examples. Maybe folks could post some of their favorites or recommend a resource that covers this?

  31. #30

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    Giblet Gravy comes to mind, if I'm remembering accurately.

  32. #31

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    On George Benson's instructional video there's a burst of double stops maybe 20 seconds long that he demonstrates that blew my mind. Wish I had a transcription of it or could find the video. I'd steel every one.

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    So on a 5-string banjo?
    Keef.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by janjakut
    Only me, but these come with a lot of double-stops:



    Hey Jan, maybe this is not what Anton was after, but it's really nice stuff. I'm working on getting this kind of thing into my playing, (which I think of as holding 2 and 3-note chords under a single note line, as opposed to punching them in, a la barney kessel) I was motivated by
    a lesson I took with Steve Herbermann recently, and also careful listening to Gilad Hex, and Lage lund, and all the other guys Anton hates

    but to the original topic: practicing major scales in 3rd and 6th double stops doesnt take long to incorporate and gets at that bluesy double stop thing.

    Playing in 4rths and 5ths is also pretty easy on the guitar, but is bit more ambiguous sounding.

    Of course you can cheat too: I remember tying to cop a Jim Hall solo in parallel 5ths, only to realize he was using a pedal!

  35. #34

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    Yeah double stops (or dyads) is just two notes at the same time.... You may as well ask, which players still play blues ideas?

    Who is the bluesiest of the current crop of jazzers?

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah double stops (or dyads) is just two notes at the same time.... You may as well ask, which players still play blues ideas?

    Who is the bluesiest of the current crop of jazzers?
    Mark Whitfield.

  37. #36

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    Well let’s say under 40

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well let’s say under 40

    Me! Shit, blues is all I got. (And I'm just BARELY under 40)
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 11-30-2017 at 03:52 PM.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Me! Shit, blues is all I got. (And I'm just BARELY under 40)
    I took a lesson with a guy online, and after playing a couple of lines for him he said, "You've got some good blues in your playing. Don't lose that."

    'Cause yeah, for about, oh, 25 years there, blues was all I played. Well, the occasional Knopfler style dorian run, but mostly blues.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmoga
    So, as a relative newbie (longtime bassist that picked up the guitar a couple of years ago), it would be cool to see some other examples of the "classics" - and I mean the greasy/bluesy double stop licks ala Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, etc. I've searched the web, but never found a good compilation of the most common examples. Maybe folks could post some of their favorites or recommend a resource that covers this?
    Grant Green's Sookie Sookie.

  41. #40

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    I cannot believe no one mentioned has the late Herb Ellis who was quite fond of double stops on the 1st and 2nd strings and bluesy ones on the 3rd and second strings !

  42. #41

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    Chuck Berry. Forever.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    Chuck Berry. Forever.
    yeah man...chuck was the king of double stops...and the guys that influenced him...like carl hogan of the immensely popular louis jordan band,oscar and johnny moore, t-bone walker...etc etc...more a west coast jump music or rhythm 'n blues thing...

    modern master is the great junior watson



    cheers

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    yeah man...chuck was the king of double stops...and the guys that influenced him...like carl hogan of the immensely popular louis jordan band,oscar and johnny moore, t-bone walker...etc etc...more a west coast jump music or rhythm 'n blues thing...

    modern master is the great junior watson



    cheers
    Love it - thanks!

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkirk
    I was motivated by
    a lesson I took with Steve Herbermann recently, and also careful listening to Gilad Hex, and Lage lund, and all the other guys Anton hates
    hahaha, yeah, you got me! It's almost true, but hate is too simple a word, the feelings are complicated lol. It's more about the direction they take the jazz guitar that I can't get on board with. Like you said, you got motivated, and i never did, and it means I'm outta the game! There is no future for me, arghhhh! But at least i have my double stops, I'll stick to it, I did it myyyy waaay .

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    yeah man...chuck was the king of double stops...and the guys that influenced him...like carl hogan of the immensely popular louis jordan band,oscar and johnny moore, t-bone walker...etc etc...more a west coast jump music or rhythm 'n blues thing...

    modern master is the great junior watson



    cheers
    That's cool! I think the guitar he's playing is the same Eddie Van Halen used on ''Little Guitars''... But I might be wrong.

    While it's def cool playing, it's a blues style, not really jazz. What I wanna hear is, for example, tunes like Moonlight In Vermont, or There's No Greater Love, that has nothing to do with blues, but you can still stick some double stops in it and it's sounds heavenly... That kinda thing.

  47. #46

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  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by gtrplrfla
    I cannot believe no one mentioned has the late Herb Ellis who was quite fond of double stops on the 1st and 2nd strings and bluesy ones on the 3rd and second strings !
    I think Herb Ellis is not quite relevant to this discussion.

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think Herb Ellis is not quite relevant to this discussion.
    I beg to differ. Herb Ellis was highly influenced by the blues and furthermore, the topic is "Double stops in Jazz." How is he irrelevant ?

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by gtrplrfla
    I beg to differ. Herb Ellis was highly influenced by the blues and furthermore, the topic is "Double stops in Jazz." How is he irrelevant ?
    Well, because the OP was getting at the idea of are there STILL people out there doing it...

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Well, because the OP was getting at the idea of are there STILL people out there doing it...
    One never do know ...

    John