Mechanics of moving from chord to chord

[pcjazz]

I've been having a little trouble lately moving smoothly between some pairs of chords, particularly where the move involves string crossing and a stretch. So I've been looking at the technical advice, such as it is --- much less than one might think for such a fundamental aspect of playing the instrument --- and there seem to be two distinct schools of thought. Leaving aside the obvious (keeping common (anchor) notes fretted, using a guide finger to move up and down a string) these are the main approaches:

1) Visualize the new chord, lift your hand off the neck, form the shape of the new chord, then put down all fingers at once. If you have to adjust finger placement you're doing it wrong. This advice comes from shredders but also some of the jazz technicians like Buck Brown's "Jazz Chops for Guitar" (p. 53).

2) Move the fingers into position sequentially, holding common notes where possible for legato effect. This advice comes from some classical guitarists, and is maybe influenced by fingerstyle as opposed to plectrum execution.

I've started working on plectrum solo chordal playing (after years of concentrating on fingerstyle) and hope to work up smooth legato chording at tempo. I recognize that there is a lot of detailed practice time required, but I'm still trying to work out which of these approaches to emphasize in my practicing.

An example of a change that I'm having trouble making smoothly at tempo:

x-x-5-7-6-6 to x-5-5-3-6-x === There doesn't seem to be a fingering that allows for anchoring the F on string 2.

(Drop 2 voicings, Bb6/6 to Bb6/3, but on different string sets, to harmonize the melody Bb --> F.)

Any thoughts about which of the two approaches to pursue?

[rob taft]

Short answer: Although I mostly play with my fingers, I'm pretty much in the #1 school. In making the example you gave, I make the transition by leading with my first finger and almost instantly place down the others. Just takes practice. Of course if it is too hard, I would use a different voicing or play a single note or partial chord. I have a scarred up ring finger and certain fingerings especially one that involve a good third finger stretch are difficult so I tend to avoid them. I would use #2 if I thought the song/arrangement benefited from it. Since I play primarily with my fingers but not a traditional PIMA player, I'm mostly either plucking the notes simultaneously or using my thumb if I want a pick type down stoke sound. I use the other fingers for approach#2 or for single note runs. There I'm mostly PI with a bit of M.

[pingu]

Hi ,I do keep any fingers down when that's possible
Often its not ...
I tend/try to make all movements simultaneous

I do a lot of repetitions to get the move into
Finger memory

I fairly often will leave out some voices for speed
and clarity
Eg Dmin7 to G7 (high F note stays on)
X5x56x
X5x46x (no root)

Sorry not much help
I think repetition is the thing tho

[Rob MacKillop]

I use both depending on the circumstance. It requires a good deal of work before it comes naturally to hand, so to speak...

[rob taft]

To follow up on what I wrote earlier. I agree with Rob and Pingu that it just takes a lot of practice. As I mentioned, I had a serious hand injury that really set me back. As part of my therapy, I dug up one of my favorite Guitar Player columns by Howard Roberts it was published in 1975 called "Sonic Shapes" and he discusses using geometric patterns to open the mind and improve motor skill coordination. So instead of just using those shapes for single lines I would use four fingered shapes than invert them, play them on different strings, different parts of the neck. The idea is to stop thinking about the musical data i.e. note names, scale types etc.and focus ones attention on just making the shape cleanly, evenly and fast.

[pcjazz]

No doubts about the need for practice, but the question was which approach to emphasize in practicing.

#1 means there will always be a gap between the two chords and the object of practice is to make the gap as small as possible while maintaining the accuracy and clarity of the voicing.

#2 aims as much as possible to eliminate the gap by easing into the new voicing while sustaining common tones. This is how I mostly approach it when playing with fingers, using right-hand devices like arpeggiation or alternating between pairs of voices in the chord to ride out the left hand's motion. It is more difficult to do this persuasively with the plectrum but I'm thinking that for me there might be more payoff in working that out through practice than in pursuing #1.

The practical solution is often to choose a different voicing or to play only a part of one or even a single note or octave --- generally more acceptable in rhythm accompaniment than solo chordal playing. I would like those choices to be driven by the music more than by my mechanical limitations, which are only increasing with age. But I do appreciate that both approaches have their place.

And then there's rubato --- but that's another thread!

[matt.guitarteacher]

I know it's not exactly what you're asking for , but beyond just being able to change quickly/smoothly, there's a larger issue of playing chord melody in a legato way. I think everyone's inclination, in the beginning, is to think that if it's not smooth enough, you need to just work on transitioning FASTER, But there's a lot more to the "smoke and mirrors" which give legato sound to playing.

The two crucial articulations for legato chord melody, in my opinion, are bass-first and melody-first. Most players are somewhat comfortable with planting the bass note of the chord first, picking it, and then articulating the rest of the chord. If you're not really comfortable with it yet, practice it, by playing the bass note on the "&" before the beat, and then articulating the rest of the chord or similar.

The other articulation is to pick the melody note 1st and then complete the full chord. This one feels a little more backwards to most of us , as we don't really do it in rock and other styles before jazz , but it's the most important thing which distinguishes the guys really play solo guitar well - being able to walk along the fretboard and play in a legato, unrushed fashion. That "comping after the beat " thing is also really important to jazz phrasing.

If you know what you're looking for, you'll notice this in players who play solo guitar really well, but it may be kind of difficult "see" at first, because it looks like something else: it looks basically like they're playing single note melodies and then always landing "by luck" on the finger which allows them to fill in a chord while holding the last melody note. Of course it's not really "luck". It comes from practicing articulating broken chords that way, melody first. I've even heard this talked about by other from members, describing how pros must just know how to put the chord in any position. Probably somewhat true, but it's not necessary to learning to play in a basic way like this. And the very real fact is that the best way to learn the kind of independence which facilitates easily mixing single-note and chord stabs IS the very technique.

Smooth transitions of block chords are important , but I think chasing after that as a solution to what is probably a different problem can be frustrating . You'll never be fast enough to satisfy that urge probably. Block chords, in and of themselves, could be a lot of the problem.

[lammie200]

...The idea is to stop thinking about the musical data i.e. note names, scale types etc.and focus ones attention on just making the shape cleanly, evenly and fast.

I like that idea since I am not as theory minded as someone that has been schooled in it.

[dasein]

1) Visualize the new chord, lift your hand off the neck, form the shape of the new chord, then put down all fingers at once. If you have to adjust finger placement you're doing it wrong. This advice comes from shredders but also some of the jazz technicians like Buck Brown's "Jazz Chops for Guitar" (p. 53).

2) Move the fingers into position sequentially, holding common notes where possible for legato effect. This advice comes from some classical guitarists, and is maybe influenced by fingerstyle as opposed to plectrum execution.

Your post actually has clues for why you would use either approach.

Approach 1 - Used by "shredders" - ie, people who play LOUD. When you're playing with a lot of gain, muting is important. Don't want everything turning into a sea of mud.

Approach 2 - Used by classical guitarists. Keeping notes ringing out is an important stylistic element of a lot of classical guitar playing, it creates a similar effect to a sustain pedal on a piano.

First, I don't think it's necessarily an either/or choice. Who says you can't mix and match when appropriate? And even if you decide to strictly use Approach 1, you'll probably have to occasionally adjust your fingers in the heat of actually playing. Yeah, yeah, in a perfect world... but when has any gig or performance ever gone perfectly?

Second, I think there are stylistic advantages to both approaches. Wes Montgomery really went for that strong, precise rhythmic attack with his chord solos. Ted Greene, on the other hand, really loved to sustain as many notes as possible between chords. They both sound great.

[NSJ]

I think #1 is called PLANTING and is also used in classical guitar.

Pasquale has a great way of playing arpeggios that removes the staccato one note at a time feel that utilizes the dexterity of the plectrum to create, as he terms it, a "continuous run" .

E.g. playing an Em7 arpeggio:

1. Play the E as one single note. (e.g., on the 4th string, 2nd fret) using an upstroke.
2. Plant a GM triad (E.g., root position on the 4th string, 3rd position)
3. strum the GM triad using a downstroke of the plectrum.

So, instead of 4 consecutive notes, you have 1 note followed by a planted triad.

[Tomcat]

I got an interesting exercise from Jody Fisher once. When you need to move from one chord to the next and you find it really difficult then practice the change finger by finger.

So finger 1 goes from his position in 1st chord to his position in 2nd chord (times 24)
finger 2 does the same exercise and so on with 3 and 4
Then use two fingers, then three and four

Each movement repeat 24 times.
This way you can nail even the most crazy chord change in appr 5-10 minutes.

[pluck]

Thanks Tomcat I have to give this a good try. I have faith in this method; Its the best plan I've seen so far.

thanks again
Pluuck

[DonEsteban]

You probably may not like what I have to say, but for me the answer is simple:

Practice more - no matter how (method) - but more.

Get the proverbial 10.000 hours under the hood. It comes... it happens .... keep going .... one day you realize you never spend a single thought anymore about placing your fingers and you can't remember when this has happened.

The simple thought of a chord (any chord actually) makes your hand play it. It just does. But not till you payed your dues.

I've been through it, everybody here in the forum did it ... well most of them.... :-D

Edit .... As an afterthought: I'd really not practice fingerings and stuff anymore if I had to do it again. Practice songs, music, the stuff that counts.... the rest comes with time (and the endless hours spent) automatically.

[pcjazz]

You probably may not like what I have to say, but for me the answer is simple:

Practice more - no matter how (method) - but more.

Get the proverbial 10.000 hours under the hood. It comes... it happens .... keep going .... one day you realize you never spend a single thought anymore about placing your fingers and you can't remember when this has happened.

The simple thought of a chord (any chord actually) makes your hand play it. It just does. But not till you payed your dues.

I've been through it, everybody here in the forum did it ... well most of them.... :-D

Edit .... As an afterthought: I'd really not practice fingerings and stuff anymore if I had to do it again. Practice songs, music, the stuff that counts.... the rest comes with time (and the endless hours spent) automatically.

Thank you for your advice, which I am sure is well-intentioned, but you might wish to reexamine your assumptions. I have been playing this music for more than half a century, have many tens of thousands of hours under the hood, and yet the instrument never ceases to throw up new challenges. As I said in my original post, I well realize that practice is the answer. My question was about where to focus the practice between two quite different technical approaches and I have received some interesting and useful replies for which I am grateful.

[Tomcat]

Practice more "No matter how " is a dangerous advice.

There is a huge difference between good, focused practice and mindless finger gymnastic.

[DonEsteban]

Thank you for your advice, which I am sure is well-intentioned,

Definitely was, but there seems to be something I don't understand, even now after re-reading your original post. So sorry for sounding smart-alecky, wasn't intended.

To your question regarding the two ways of changing position:
Can only talk about me, but once I understood a fingering my hand just plays it. All fingers go to their place at once, simultaneously, because the "picture" is in my mind. Can't express it better. If too much stretch is involved I avoid it and look for a musical alternative.

To your example:
You want to make the F keep ringing while changing these chords? I don't know a way to do that. I'd maybe sacrifice the D note (3rd str.) or the Bb (1st) in the first chord. Or a couple of other things, but must probably I'd chose other voicings. To suggest something I'd need to know about your particular idea or intentions here and, of course, the musical context of your example.

Practice more "No matter how " is a dangerous advice.
There is a huge difference between good, focused practice and mindless finger gymnastic.

I politely disagree. Assuming that you should immediately stop if something hurts (common sense, isn't it?) there are infinite ways to achieve something like guitar playing. Some are faster and more efficient, some are slower. My advice to everyone would always be: Find your own way!

With "no matter how" I meant "ether way of the two proposed by OP". Shouldn't we always avoid doing things "mindlessly"?

[Runepune]

You can have the F stay if you absolutely want, by fingering 1432 to 2213

Whether I lift/put down all fingers at once or not, depends on whether I want the sudden pause or not...If I want things to sustain, I keep fingers down as long as possible and move them sequentially. It doesn't have to be common notes. Letting selected notes ring as long as possible while getting the other fingers ready makes that "hole" much smaller and less abrupt.

With standard fingering for the chords you mentioned, I would likely have kept the index on the G as long as possible.

[DonEsteban]

You can have the F stay if you absolutely want, by fingering 1432 to 2213

You're right, Runepune, didn't think of that, or even 2433 -> 2213 straaaaange fingering though ... :-)

[matt.guitarteacher]

I don't think the solution is necessarily to find a different fingering, which avoids technical limitations, not if it's one that should be addressed in the first place. You should have a pallete of musical choices, in terms of voicings, without as much respect to ease of playing alone.

there is too much chord melody playing already which compromises everything : rhythm, phrasing , how many cords are played etc. etc. etc., ALL for the sake of making it easier to PLAY. I always serve my inner piano player wore one player forefinger etc., and I'm never happy unless I was approaching that kind of feel , even if the voicings are sparser etc. Legato is a technique to be learned, over countless different types of chords.

You very often run into further problems with awkward phrasing, conflicts between harmony and melody and various other issues. All of these things teach you to play better if you address them head on. All things being equal, minor seventh chords are some of the easiest things to play on guitar.

What is this tune, and what portion are we talking about?

[mr. beaumont]

I think #1 is called PLANTING and is also used in classical guitar.

Pasquale has a great way of playing arpeggios that removes the staccato one note at a time feel that utilizes the dexterity of the plectrum to create, as he terms it, a "continuous run" .

E.g. playing an Em7 arpeggio:

1. Play the E as one single note. (e.g., on the 4th string, 2nd fret) using an upstroke.
2. Plant a GM triad (E.g., root position on the 4th string, 3rd position)
3. strum the GM triad using a downstroke of the plectrum.

So, instead of 4 consecutive notes, you have 1 note followed by a planted triad.

This is why I think everyone should spend 1 year taking classical lessons.

I got so much out of it, and I was lazy and half-assed it. I can only imagine how beneficial it would be to someone who took it seriously.

[pcjazz]

What is this tune, and what portion are we talking about?

Ram's Lament, bar 2, beats 2 and 3, block chords harmonizing melody, medium-up tempo. I'm thinking Bb6 for Ebmaj7 (rather than Cm7) in this spot. As it turns out the alternate fingering proposed above (4132 -> 2213) solves my problem nicely. Agreed though that different styles, phrasing, tempos call for different articulations and approaches. I'm just trying to put together a particular arrangement for a particular purpose with its own particular technical challenges. Thanks to all.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Yeah. I don't know what the requirements are, whether you're arranging yourself etc. Didn't realize it was up-tempo I guess. Not familiar with that tune....

Inversions of a single chord don't necessarily require full voicings for each note, and definitely not completely changing position. If you want the movement of complete block, start with a five-note voicing which suits both notes , and subtract one note from each, to give you 2 separate four-note voicings in-position. Or articulate your 4-note voicing as 2 separate 3 note voicings. Depends on what you want and how fast, I guess.

x-x-5-7-6-6 to x-x-5-7-6-X
or
x-x-x-7-6-6 to x-x-5-7-6-x
Or
XX5566 to X5556X (from asingle chord voicing: X55566)

[christianm77]

You probably may not like what I have to say, but for me the answer is simple:

Practice more - no matter how (method) - but more.

Get the proverbial 10.000 hours under the hood. It comes... it happens .... keep going .... one day you realize you never spend a single thought anymore about placing your fingers and you can't remember when this has happened.

The simple thought of a chord (any chord actually) makes your hand play it. It just does. But not till you payed your dues.

I've been through it, everybody here in the forum did it ... well most of them.... :-D

Edit .... As an afterthought: I'd really not practice fingerings and stuff anymore if I had to do it again. Practice songs, music, the stuff that counts.... the rest comes with time (and the endless hours spent) automatically.

Only perfect practice makes perfect

[pcjazz]

Yeah. I don't know what the requirements are, whether you're arranging yourself etc. Didn't realize it was up-tempo I guess. Not familiar with that tune....

Inversions of a single chord don't necessarily require full voicings for each note, and definitely not completely changing position. If you want the movement of complete block, start with a five-note voicing which suits both notes , and subtract one note from each, to give you 2 separate four-note voicings in-position. Or articulate your 4-note voicing as 2 separate 3 note voicings. Depends on what you want and how fast, I guess.

x-x-5-7-6-6 to x-x-5-7-6-X
or
x-x-x-7-6-6 to x-x-5-7-6-x
Or
XX5566 to X5556X (from asingle chord voicing: X55566)

Certainly, Matt, those voicings might work in another context but they are not what I am after here. And surely you have heard of Ram's Lament --- also known as There Will Never Be Another Ewe.

[Donnie]

Muscle Memory; they more you do it, the easier you do it.