Which fingers do the 2 stretches?

[enuenu]

After many years of playing I recently decided to learn to do it properly, theory and all

So far so good. My latest project is learning the 7x 3nps patterns for major scales.
Ionian Mode: 3 note per string patterns | Discover Guitar Online, Learn to Play Guitar

I figure that while it has set me way back in terms of speed and accuracy in the short term, learning 3nps patterns will pay off in the long run. What I've read here and other places reinforces the importance of learning to play scales 3nps with the required 2 fret stretches (the hard part for me at the moment).

My question, when I have to cover 5 frets, is the 2 fret stretch done between the 1st & 2nd finger or the 3rd & 4th finger? I'm pretty sure you don't do a 2 fret stretch between the 2nd & 3rd finger.
Alternatively, is the 2 fret stretch sometimes 1st to 2nd finger and at other times 3rd to 4th finger?

Thanks

[vintagelove]

After many years of playing I recently decided to learn to do it properly, theory and all

So far so good. My latest project is learning the 7x 3nps patterns for major scales.
Ionian Mode: 3 note per string patterns | Discover Guitar Online, Learn to Play Guitar

I figure that while it has set me way back in terms of speed and accuracy in the short term, learning 3nps patterns will pay off in the long run. What I've read here and other places reinforces the importance of learning to play scales 3nps with the required 2 fret stretches (the hard part for me at the moment).

My question, when I have to cover 5 frets, is the 2 fret stretch done between the 1st & 2nd finger or the 3rd & 4th finger? I'm pretty sure you don't do a 2 fret stretch between the 2nd & 3rd finger.
Alternatively, is the 2 fret stretch sometimes 1st to 2nd finger and at other times 3rd to 4th finger?

Thanks

your thumb should be placed roughly across from your middle finger. This allows you to stretch back with the index and up with the pinky simultaneously.


btw +10,000 for 7 position, 3nps scale system.

[Lobomov]

For a long time I would let my pinky cover such stretches, but recently I've taken forum member Reg523's advice and placed them between the 1st and 2nd finger. Much stronger fingers and it works better imho.

[vintagelove]

Ah I missed that, first position fingering is

Index Middle Pinky
imp
imp
imp
(shift)
irp
irp

[ronjazz]

The pinky is much stronger and more flexible than you might think, and there is no good reason to avoid its use, including the stretch that it does rather easily once you've practiced it. I do think that the 3 notes per string methodology is far more limiting than freeing, and makes everybody sound the same.

[R Neil]

I was shown how to practice doing ring pinky ring pinky exercises. Just take a fret position like ring on 5, pinky on 6. Start on low E string, play ring-pinky then move ring to 5th string ring-pinky then 4th ... to the top and back many times, building speed over time. And learning how to "still" the other fingers also over time.

After a number of those, switch to pinky plays and moves first, so pinky-ring then pinky to 5th pinky-ring then to 4th ... rinse and repeat.

Then practice a scale pattern where you start with index on say low-E string 3rd fret G. Play a Gibson major scale, which requires stretching the pinky out to the 7th fret nearly every string on the way up and back.

Build accuracy then build speed to develop agility.

Do that daily for three weeks and it's amazing what the pinky can now do.

Start working some of the chord positions that include a pinky stretch to build real-world use.

And laugh at mere mortals ... or maybe, not ... especially in my case. Pinky is pretty useful ... check. Other capabilities ... like a developed jazzer brain, not so much. Sigh.

Stumbling fingers still need love ...

[destinytot]

The diagram is wrong,it"s starts with the seventh mode-the locrian.
The second diagram is the ionian/Major scale fingering,third is dorian and so on.
This site is your typical half breed internet bullshit,if you need honest information on 3nps,
buy Steve Crowells 84 Jazz Equations and the follow-ups books.

This diagram? Ionian Mode: 3 note per string patterns | Discover Guitar Online, Learn to Play Guitar
Sorry if I'm missing something, but doesn't the white letter R on each blue dot show show the correct tonic?

And shouldn't 'half-breed' be hyphenated?

[henryrobinett]

It's not wrong as far as I can tell. I think it's wrong to refer to the scale that starts on the 7th degree locrian. It's misleading. But I'm barking up such and old tree and I bark till I'm blue in the face about this. Since all the modes are in all the scale patterns I have my students stop calling the scale patterns by mode names. I don't want them associated with modes. The only thing I think is missing is the fingering.

I've been using 3ps scale patterns since about 1975. I don't think they make me sound like anyone else.


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[henryrobinett]

My question, when I have to cover 5 frets, is the 2 fret stretch done between the 1st & 2nd finger or the 3rd & 4th finger? I'm pretty sure you don't do a 2 fret stretch between the 2nd & 3rd finger.
Alternatively, is the 2 fret stretch sometimes 1st to 2nd finger and at other times 3rd to 4th finger?

Thanks

ALWAYS the stretch - for me and my students - is between the 1&2 and NEVER between the 3&4. The former opens up the hand and puts less stress on it. The latter, 3&4 constricts the hand and adds a lot of stress.

I know it seems counter-intuitive to most, but everyone who argued with me about this within a week or two of doing it my way agreed with me.

[destinytot]

Behold the proper object of middle finger extension:

typical half breed internet bullshit

Without wishing to make a mountain out of a molehill, if you're going to use this adjective - which is far from innocuous - kindly hyphenate it.

Freedom of expression comes with accountability.

[henryrobinett]

I wasn't even going to go there with the "half-breed" comment. Straight out racist. But I preferred to not interpret it as racist, but rather half musician??


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[destinytot]

I wasn't even going to go there with the "half-breed" comment. Straight out racist.


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I'm not so sure. I suspect he's just socially inept.

[MarkRhodes]

A post that was in this thread has now been deleted (in full).

Comments by others which include the deleted material (or refer to it without quoting it) may be dealt with---or let be--at the discretion of those using it.

I was less bothered by the term-which-could-be-racist, as it here referred to the site itself---what breed is that, anyway?---and struck me as meaning "half-assed." Not a nice term but hardly out of bounds.

I deleted the post because it called this a BS site. From someone well-known around here, in the heat of the moment, that might d be tolerated ("Having a bad day, mate?") but here, I saw no reason to let it slide.

[destinytot]

I deleted the post because it called this a BS site.

Actually, it called another site BS.

[destinytot]

(Satire intended)

[MarkRhodes]

Actually, it called another site BS.

Really? I thought the line was 'this is another BS site' (as in just one more among many).

I don't know what "breed" the site was considered to be. The site is headquartered in Belgium, though the person using that term may not know it. Is Belgian a breed? What mix breeds was suggested? I read it as something like "half-assed".

[destinytot]

I was less bothered by the term-which-could-be-racist, as it here referred to the site itself---what breed is that, anyway?---and struck me as meaning "half-assed." Not a nice term but hardly out of bounds.

An unfortunate malapropism? Sounds reasonable - and almost funny. But I didn't like the tone, so I sent up a flare:

[MarkRhodes]

An unfortunate malapropism? Sounds reasonable - and almost funny. But I didn't like the tone, so I sent up a flare:

It was the thing to do. The tone was, to say the least, aggressive.

[MarkRhodes]

Here's the quote in full, which I'll remove later (along with my other off-topic BS):

I read "This site" as a reference to Discover Guitar Online, Learn to Play Guitar.

Thanks, Henry. You read it right and I read it wrong. I apologize.

[destinytot]

Thanks, Henry. You read it right and I read it wrong. I apologize.

Oops!

[Telecastergirl]

Man, I did not expect this much drama when I clicked on the 'which fingering' thread, but thanks for turning me on to Mr. Robinette's tracks!

[henryrobinett]

Man, I did not expect this much drama when I clicked on the 'which fingering' thread, but thanks for turning me on to Mr. Robinette's tracks!

Thank you very much for that!!

[destinytot]

For a long time I would let my pinky cover such stretches, but recently I've taken forum member Reg523's advice and placed them between the 1st and 2nd finger. Much stronger fingers and it works better imho.

I'd avoided 'stretches' for years until I read Reg's advice. I'd just got a guitar with scale length of 24.75", and - at the time - I was finding the stretches easier than on a longer scale. (Now I prefer playing on the longer scale neck.)

But I haven't learned to apply them at all - yet. I say that because I think I get what Reg meant about the fingerings being a 'reference'. I think that, on one level, the reference is 'internal' - a form 'signposting' implicit within the fretboard. But it's also 'external' - for example, to intervals as sounds (rather than 'visual' reference unique to guitar).

And I think that's when things get complex - so many abstractions, options and decisions affect their ultimate execution on guitar. For me, the challenge is not so much a matter of simplifying the complex (in a way that negatively affects the musical content) but of making the complicated manageable - which allows scope for further content.

One reason "I haven't learned to apply them at all - yet" is because I haven't really wanted to*. As long as I can get by with a well-developed ear and fretboard familiarity based on many years of accompanying myself (which is not insignificant, and not without consequence, benefit or reward), I can get by on a wing and a prayer.

But now I really do want to apply them - because it's become obvious to me that 3nps is the way to integrate reading, performing and improvising the kind of complex bebop lines to which I aspire. So now I'm working systematically on 3nps.

Thanks for this thread, which I'll watch with interest.

*not that I'm 'lazy'. My motivation is intrinsic - but if I can find an easy way, I'll take it. (Now I'm using CST - and a pinch of salt.)