While picking, fingers touch strings too (and I'm not into that)

**MarkRhodes** · 12-12-2016, 04:09 PM

So this isn't about hybrid picking. That's picking with a pick (perhaps a thumb pick) and with one or more other fingers.

I'm talking about using a pick and meaning to strike the strings (either while playing single notes, double strops, chord stabs, or full chords) with the pick only. But flesh hits 'em too.

First Question:
Is it worth worrying about?
If the answer is no, that is also the last question.

But if the answer is yes, as in, 'yes, that will interfere with your playing, either by slowing you down or by sounding--or muting--strings at the wrong time' then the Second Question may well be:

Is there a common cause for this, such as holding the pick too close to the tip or placing the pick to far from the tip of one's index finger? (Or something else?)

**ronjazz** · 12-12-2016, 04:23 PM

1st question: no

**henryrobinett** · 12-12-2016, 04:37 PM

Yes.

**mr. beaumont** · 12-12-2016, 04:58 PM

If it bothers ou to where you think about it, then yes, it's an issue.

That said, I beleive a little skin touches the strings when I play...I've never felt it created a problem. I think if I was frequently playing high speed, precision things, it could be...it's all about even-ness and continuity.

If you want to try an absolutely evil device that is maddening to use (but I can be almost certain will work) look into the "stylus pick."

**henryrobinett** · 12-12-2016, 05:09 PM

Yes, exactly. It becomes a problem for me when I play very fast. Flesh gets in the way and muffles the sound.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-12-2016, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

If you want to try an absolutely evil device that is maddening to use (but I can be almost certain will work) look into the "stylus pick."

Tried one of those years ago. Around the time the first Frank Gambale record came out. I could use it---you either learn how or it gets caught on a string and stops you cold---but I'm not sure how much it helped me when I went back to a normal pick. Maybe that's when I started gripping the pick too close to the tip! ;o)

---It would be interesting to try one again, though. Thanks for the reminder!

**MarkRhodes** · 12-12-2016, 06:17 PM

Here's another video which gives a better view of what the pick looks like. (Not vouching for this guy as a player, but you get a good sense from this video of how the pick actually works, especially that "pulling the pick down into the strings."

**lawson-stone** · 12-12-2016, 06:33 PM

One solution that was suggested to me for a different undesirable action:

STOP IT!

**MarkRhodes** · 12-12-2016, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

One solution that was suggested to me for a different undesirable action:

STOP IT!

Easier said than done, my friend!

On second thought, this wasn't a problem when I was Benson picking....

**Runepune** · 12-12-2016, 11:25 PM

You're not using one of those small "jazz" sizes, are you? If so, use a larger pick

I used to get the flesh of my thumb muting strings when I din't want it to. It kinda felt like I had better control when only a very small portion of the pick stuck out. After practicing a lot on acoustic guitar, needing to let the pick stick further out (just sounds much better that way), I find that I in fact have even better control this way. And it sounds better on electric too

**Krenwin** · 12-13-2016, 04:47 AM

Try PM

**MarkRhodes** · 12-13-2016, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Runepune

You're not using one of those small "jazz" sizes, are you? If so, use a larger pick

I used to use a Jazz III but I gave it up in part for that reason. (Another was that I couldn't get them to stay in place---they kept trying to turn around in my hand.) I use a 351 shape now---Fender Medium (or something much like it, such as a D'Andrea.)

Holding it further back helps. I think when I grip too close to the end of the pick, it forces a slight cock in my wrist to keep the pick so close to the strings and that that angle changes without warning. That's the theory of the moment, anyway. I'll be on to another one by lunchtime...

**mr. beaumont** · 12-13-2016, 11:18 AM

Try flipping the pick over, use the round side, see what happens.

**lawson-stone** · 12-13-2016, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Easier said than done, my friend!

On second thought, this wasn't a problem when I was Benson picking....

Just funnin' with you!

**goldenwave77** · 12-13-2016, 11:28 AM

Are you a pure wrist picker, or do use some independent action of the fingers moving against the hand?

I think the latter promotes a smaller movement, but it's probably harder to play in a set, repetitive groove, as opposed to more wrist movement. (Personally, I can't use much wrist movement for any length of time without feeling that the joint is going to crash and burn--but, literally, different strokes for different folks.)

Kenny Burrell---pretty much all finger movement, little wrist movement--watch the joints of his thumb bop up and down

Conti--some finger movement--some wrist movement

I think Benson picking really emphasizes finger movement.

Don't want to re-ignite a picking debate...all these methods have pros/cons.

(It's a little like putting strokes in golf---the orthodoxy is "less hands, pendelum movement with arms and shoulders" but if you really watch different pros...most are a mixture of a bit of each...but counterintuitively, a "more feel" type of stroke, i.e. more fingers and hands, and less arms and shoulders, can be a lot less repeatable.)

**generalduke** · 12-13-2016, 11:58 AM

I used to rasp my fingernail of the index finger of my picking hand on the strings. At first I tried holding the tip of the pick further away from my fingers so the pick alone touches strings, but recently I started to turn my hand slightly counterclockwise, so now the side of the thumb is touching the strings which creates some cool harmonics.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-13-2016, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by generalduke

I used to rasp my fingernail of the index finger of my picking hand on the strings. At first I tried holding the tip of the pick further away from my fingers so the pick alone touches strings, but recently I started to turn my hand slightly counterclockwise, so now the side of the thumb is touching the strings which creates some cool harmonics.

That's interesting. A few times when experimenting (and when am I not?), I have placed the pick near the middle joint, leaving the whole top part of the index uncovered (by any part of the pick). Sometimes when I do that, the fingernail and pick hit the string at the same time, or sometimes slightly out of synch. It can create a nifty effect, though it's not something I've worked on for its own sake.

**ginod** · 12-13-2016, 06:43 PM

I know defintly what you mean. I have got this problem when i am using downward Pickslanting on the high E-String. My Index finger touch the high e string sometimes and my playing stuck.

At the moment i take care to have a real gypsy technique with a floating hand which is placed behind the high e string.

A other solution is to make not much pick slanting. But in this case your picking don't come from the twitch, it comes from the forearm/wrist. Because if you playing like a gypsy you have to make Pickslanting and twitch-picking.

Next important point which gives me a bad sound is to touch the string with your thumb, before you play the next note. So you damp your note to early and you got a not fluently or staccato Sound. Today i had a lesson, and the teacher said that to my, that i play to much staccato, so i recognizes, that i damp the string sometimes with my thumb to early.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-13-2016, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by goldenwave77

Are you a pure wrist picker, or do use some independent action of the fingers moving against the hand?

The latter. I've tried to do elbow picking---Jimmy Bruno recommends it and it sounds fine when he does it---but I don't think I could ever make that fly for me.

Funny thing about picking: when you are doing a simple exercise, you may pick some specific way , but once you're playing a tune, some lines, a bit of this and that, then glance down at your hand to see what it's doing, it may be far removed from the practiced stroke you've been working on. At least, that's what happens to me.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-13-2016, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by ginod

A other solution is to make not much pick slanting. But in this case your picking don't come from the twitch, it comes from the forearm/wrist. Because if you playing like a gypsy you have to make Pickslanting and twitch-picking.

Please say more about "twitch-picking". Is that a thumb/finger motion, or a rotation of the wrist? (When JC Stylles talks about Benson picking, he says the picking motion is really of a "shake" of the wrist.) Could that be similar to what you mean by 'twitch-picking'? If not, please enlighten me! I'm unfamiliar with that term.

**ginod** · 12-14-2016, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Please say more about "twitch-picking". Is that a thumb/finger motion, or a rotation of the wrist? (When JC Stylles talks about Benson picking, he says the picking motion is really of a "shake" of the wrist.) Could that be similar to what you mean by 'twitch-picking'? If not, please enlighten me! I'm unfamiliar with that term.

Yes i heard that word in an online video. So the movement comes only from the joint between hand and forearm. Its a little bit like open or close a door with a key. But it general its describe the picking motion of a gypsy guitar player

In all the time i have seen three different types of arm movement. Twitch picking, which i described before - Scalpel Picking (movement only from the finger) and Forearmpicking. Of course some people would say wrist picking is missing. But i think wrist picking doesn't really exist without Forearmpicking. In slow tempo maybe the motion seems to come from the wrist but if you see a wrist picker playing faster, you will recognize some of the described Picking Approaches.

**DRS** · 12-14-2016, 10:33 AM

Whatever picking method the OP chooses, the key is to play slowly and cleanly and only increase the tempo as the old tempo is mastered. If you start flubbing, slow down. Repetition. Then your muscles will be programmed to pick cleanly without clams.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-14-2016, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by DRS

Whatever picking method the OP chooses, the key is to play slowly and cleanly and only increase the tempo as the old tempo is mastered. If you start flubbing, slow down. Repetition. Then your muscles will be programmed to pick cleanly without clams.

As Troy Stetina put it, "If you make a mistake, you're playing too fast." I think there's a lot to that. However, there's a wrinkle when experimenting with picking: you may screw up playing a familiar line because you haven't made a picking change habitual yet. That is, you may, unknowingly, revert to the previous way of picking during a passage and that inconsistency may cause the clam.

Put another way: "If you make a mistake, you're playing too fast," assumes one is always playing the same way. Bur if you're not, THAT---and not 'playing too fast'---may be the problem. (This is why sometimes one can play something clean and fast but later that same day flub it.)

**FuseHead** · 12-18-2016, 01:14 PM

Some flesh hitting the string is part of the attack and changes the character of the note. There are times when you want more and there are times when you want less / none.

Note sure other than practice or playing in general if there is any other way to get a feel for it. Inherently, if you hold the pick closer to the point you get more flesh if you hold it far away from the point you get less.

**MarkRhodes** · 01-31-2017, 11:35 AM

Earlier in this thread, Mr. Beaumont mentioned the "Stylus Pick." I tried one years ago and forgot all about it. After reading this mention, I checked to see what they sold for now. (The one I bought back in the '80s or '90s seemed expensive.) 3 for 5 bucks now. More expensive than a Jazz III, but not quite an arm and a leg. (Especially since nothing else is quite like one.) The pouch sat around through Christmas and New Year's---just opened it a few days ago. So now I'm monkeying with one again.

For those wholly unfamiliar with them, here's a video of a guy using one. (The first minute is a shred-frenzy demonstration. The explanation starts at 1:05.) What makes the pick unique is the conical tip. Developed by someone at Berklee College of Music to teach alternate picking. (If the pick digs too deep into a string, it will catch, stopping you cold. You learn to keep that from happening.)

I have no affiliation with Stylus Pick. Also, it's a practice tool, not a performance tool. (It is really hard to play chords with--it will catch. It's not meant for that. It trains you to pick with a small motion at the very tip of the pick.)

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