nylon fingerstyle single note chops

**larryb** · 11-03-2016, 04:40 PM

I'm finding that one of my biggest obstacles to advancing as a jazz player on a nylon string crossover is my dissatisfaction with my chops and ability to play single note runs fingerstyle. I'm open to any and all suggestions for developing this set of chops.

**ronjazz** · 11-03-2016, 05:11 PM

single-string playing on nylon is extraordinarily difficult, who has really done it effectively in jazz except maybe sylvain luc? the closest I've heard is Paco de Lucia improvising modally in flamenco forms; you might want to look into flamenco techniques, they have stood me in good stead for many years playing jazz on the nylon. Also, alternating p-i or p-m is a more swinging" way of playing single-note jazz with the fingers, the thumb lends weight to the downbeat and gives the triplet feel more naturally. and there is no rule about not using a pick on the nylon, either.

**destinytot** · 11-03-2016, 05:51 PM

Try Pasquale Grasso's 'hybrid' approach.

**dmozell** · 11-03-2016, 08:18 PM

I believe Lenny Breau played single note lines with PMI.

**DanielleOM** · 11-03-2016, 08:50 PM

I have been wrestling this issue myself with the MK Rick Turner semi hollow nylon string guitar. I find I really like the sound I get not using a pick with the bossa nova patterns, and chord melody. I struggle when I want to play a faster single note line. I have been trying to use the index and middle fingers, (alternating).

**Aretium** · 11-03-2016, 10:05 PM

I could upload something showing you how. But honestly, it is something that you could spend years doing.

The ONLY way, is a I M restroke. The picado in flamenco has helped me play with other musicians, though I am not that great at improvising.

Seriously, forget other techniques. If you want to be serious.

Someone mentioned Paco possibly the greatest guitarist I have heard but forget technique listen to a few albums

In the next video, this is the only way to practice unfortunately. Stoccato and focusing on planting the finger EXACTLY in between the finger and nail. Also, nails are super important for this too.

BUT, this is only if you want to play 16ths faster than 130bpm.
If you are serious about it though, you will get a much better tone and also a louder tone even if you can't get faster.

**larryb** · 11-03-2016, 10:25 PM

Thank you!!!

**destinytot** · 11-04-2016, 05:14 AM

"Look, Ma' - no nails!" Earl Klugh solo @3m40:

**Aretium** · 11-04-2016, 08:06 AM

With the greatest respect, I HATE the sound of amplified nylon. It sounds so cheap and tatty. It is a nice solo but I can't get over the sound haha

**ronjazz** · 11-04-2016, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Aretium

With the greatest respect, I HATE the sound of amplified nylon. It sounds so cheap and tatty. It is a nice solo but I can't get over the sound haha

You need better speakers. Klugh sounds warm and full. I spent an entire day with him years ago working on pickups and sound, he's very serious about sound, and gets a very good amplified sound.

**lawson-stone** · 11-04-2016, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Aretium

With the greatest respect, I HATE the sound of amplified nylon. It sounds so cheap and tatty. It is a nice solo but I can't get over the sound haha

You can't have listened to this clip. The sound is quite good. it's not "amplified" but mic'd along with whatever pickup he's using.

**Aretium** · 11-04-2016, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

You need better speakers. Klugh sounds warm and full. I spent an entire day with him years ago working on pickups and sound, he's very serious about sound, and gets a very good amplified sound.

Nothing to do with him personally. If other people like it fair enough. But i don't see the point in taking a classical/flamenco and amplifying it, unless you are using a microphone. It seriously sounds like poo. Though if he didn't amplify it, he would probably produce poor tone. So better off with an acoustic.

Remember, I have spent years fighting nails and technique to play so I am biased, if you like it fair enough and I can definitely look past that to enjoy his music.

**Aretium** · 11-04-2016, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

You can't have listened to this clip. The sound is quite good. it's not "amplified" but mic'd.

k. But the soundhole is bunged. it is 100% amplified.

**mr. beaumont** · 11-04-2016, 08:46 AM

Amplification has come a long way since that clip. And that clip sounds pretty good, to me.

**Aretium** · 11-04-2016, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Amplification has come a long way since that clip. And that clip sounds pretty good, to me.

Still don't like the sound. I know better than anyone how difficult it is to play a classical/flamenco guitar live. It is one of the reasons I rarely play live. You need a good mic, pre amp and pa system and still you will never hear the true noise the guitar makes.

As I said, it is just my background and my taste but I try not to focus on the instrument the player is playing but the music they make. So don't accuse me of being elitist

**destinytot** · 11-04-2016, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Aretium

With the greatest respect, I HATE the sound of amplified nylon. It sounds so cheap and tatty. It is a nice solo but I can't get over the sound haha

I know exactly what you mean. Needs must.

I prefer a condenser mic. Second best, for me, is a Carlos VIP (superb system, by the way). But...

I'm now getting a great sound from a nylon Ovation electro-acoustic, a Neunaber reverb stompbox and an AER amp. Not only do I like it, other people seem to like it too. Go figure.

Horses for courses. Comes down to listening - and eq.

**rob taft** · 11-04-2016, 01:13 PM

Thge video below is not nylon string guitar but it shows his finger technique pretty well. I tend to gravitate to the technique described by RonJazz (post#2). That said, I've only been playing strictly with my fingers for two years now and I am nowhere as close to fast as I was with a pick but the trade off was well worth it.

**Aretium** · 11-04-2016, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by rob taft

Thge video below is not nylon string guitar but it shows his finger technique pretty well. I tend to gravitate to the technique described by RonJazz (post#2). That said, I've only been playing strictly with my fingers for two years now and I am nowhere as close to fast as I was with a pick but the trade off was well worth it.

It is almost impossible for me to play on electric guitars. My nails catch like crazy. You have fantastic control and economy. Great playing.

I'm not sure if you are playing rest strokes or not, but for nylon it really pays off to use rest strokes.

**rlrhett** · 11-04-2016, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Aretium

Still don't like the sound. I know better than anyone how difficult it is to play a classical/flamenco guitar live. It is one of the reasons I rarely play live. You need a good mic, pre amp and pa system and still you will never hear the true noise the guitar makes.

As I said, it is just my background and my taste but I try not to focus on the instrument the player is playing but the music they make. So don't accuse me of being elitist

I'm with you on that particular video. I have heard great sound recently from amplified nylon string instruments. I know it can be done. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time on a YouTube search, but I'm not sure that is the vid I would have picked. A lot of "quack" in that sound.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**mr. beaumont** · 11-04-2016, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by rlrhett

I'm with you on that particular video. I have heard great sound recently from amplified nylon string instruments. I know it can be done. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time on a YouTube search, but I'm not sure that is the vid I would have picked. A lot of "quack" in that sound.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Intetesting, sounds very natural through my computer speakers.

**rob taft** · 11-04-2016, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Aretium

It is almost impossible for me to play on electric guitars. My nails catch like crazy. You have fantastic control and economy. Great playing.

I'm not sure if you are playing rest strokes or not, but for nylon it really pays off to use rest strokes.

I wish this was me playing but it is Sylvain Courtney. I studied Flamenco for 6+ months. I would agree that that isn't sufficient but while I understand your recommendation, when it comes to single line jazz playing I'm trying to emulate this guy.

**Aretium** · 11-07-2016, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by rob taft

I wish this was me playing but it is Sylvain Courtney. I studied Flamenco for 6+ months. I would agree that that isn't sufficient but while I understand your recommendation, when it comes to single line jazz playing I'm trying to emulate this guy.

Can I be a big noob, and ask about electric guitars. I have a crappy one at home. It has no space between the strings. That video with sylvain seems to have wider spacing. Can you buy wider fretted electric guitars?